Stop Shoulding and Start Living: Minessa Konecky on Choosing Joy Daily
Minessa Konecky is a trailblazer in reshaping work culture, infusing joy and fulfillment into the heart of professional life by optimizing efficiency flows. With over 20 years of expertise in research administration, they are seasoned strategists who passionately empowers others through their innovative Commitment to Clock Out series on YouTube. Their passion lies in harmonizing the lifecycle management of research awards with work life integration. As a proud member of the LGBTQIA plus community with deep Desi roots, Minessa embodies diversity and empathy in every endeavor. They currently reside with their wife, Alex, and three dogs in a seaside cottage in Plymouth, Massachusetts, on unceded and occupied lands of the Wampanoag people.
Listen to this full episode.
LINKS
ON THIS EPISODE
[00:00:00] Introduction to Minessa Konecky
[00:01:38] Minessa Konecky on what she’s most passionate about
[00:02:41] Minessa Konecky on decolonizing work
[00:08:44] Minessa Konecky on reconnecting with herself through this work
[00:11:29] Minessa Konecky on why she moved to the U.S. from Pakistan
[00:12:54] Minessa Konecky on her early interest in directing music videos
[00:14:55] Minessa Konecky on being a bouncer at a nightclub
[00:16:38] Minessa Konecky on the night the Paradise was shut down during a Pogues concert
[00:21:40] Minessa Konecky on being an archeologist
[00:25:22] Minessa Konecky on becoming a research administrator
[00:26:34] Minessa Konecky on her super powers to make money and help other people make money
[00:32:06] Minessa Konecky on success stories of her work
[00:36:46] Minessa Konecky on cracking the code to what businesses are doing wrong
[00:41:05] Minessa Konecky on working with people from marginalized communities
[00:47:29] Minessa Konecky on three women everyone needs to know about
[00:52:32] Minessa Konecky on her dream for herself and her dream for women
TRANSCRIPT
Passionistas: Hi, we're sisters, Amy and Nancy Harrington, the founders of The Passionistas Project. We've created an inclusive sisterhood where passion driven women come to get support, find their purpose, and feel empowered to transform their lives and change the world. On every episode, we discuss the unique ways in which each woman is following her passions, talk about how she defines success, and explore her path to breaking down the barriers that women too often face.
Today, we're talking with Minessa Konecky, a trailblazer in reshaping work culture, infusing joy and fulfillment into the heart of professional life by optimizing efficiency flows. With over 20 years of expertise in research administration, they are seasoned strategists who passionately empowers others through their innovative Commitment to Clock Out series on YouTube.
Their passion lies in harmonizing the lifecycle management of research awards with work life integration. As a proud member of the LGBTQIA plus community with deep Desi roots, Manessa embodies diversity and empathy in every endeavor. They currently reside with their wife, Alex, and three dogs in a seaside cottage in Plymouth, Massachusetts, on unceded and occupied lands of the Wampanoag people.
So please welcome Minessa Konecky.
Minessa: Hi.
Passionistas: Hi. There is so much in that intro that I love, especially when you mention the Wampanoag people, because those are the natives that we grew up surrounded by in Massachusetts. Because you're from Massachusetts. Same. Yep. That's right. So, um, all of those things we talked about and more, what are you most passionate about?
Minessa: Oh my God. You know what, what I'm actually most passionate about, my, my passionate journey is my decolonization journey. I was just talking about somebody today, talking with someone today, and I said, you know, I remember there was a time when I thought I would like decolonize before brunch, you know, and then you'll just be done with it.
You know, you do the work and then you're like, well, I'm done, right? And I, um, what I found is, initially, when I started doing the work, I felt, Like terrified and terrible and bad about everything that I found, but I now see it as more like in, like everything that you find that you can decolonize, you're just opening yourself up to greater joy on the other side.
So it's like more exciting. So it's not so much like, Oh my God, what am I going to find that I'm doing wrong today? As opposed to how can I free myself of the, you know, oppressive conditioning that I have. Um, and so I'm really, I'm so excited about that. Not just for me, but for everybody.
Passionistas: That's amazing. So, for people who don't understand what that means, what, what would you want them to know about what decolonizing work means?
Minessa: You know, there is, it's really interesting that you bring that up because it's something, I think a lot about it, like, how did I get here? What does it, where do we get here? And I think colonization is this, it's an idea that whiteness is the center of everything, and that we're chasing, we often find ourselves chasing money or doing things that are not necessarily in our own best interests because it's what we feel like we should be doing, and That idea of what we should be doing was given to us by people who are also part of a system telling you what you should be doing.
And it's why, so when I think about it in terms of what does it mean for me, like, you know, on a day to day, like, what is it, what is the impact on a person? It's actually about letting go of the stories that I was told that I was supposed to be, the role I was supposed to fill. Like, you were born assigned female at birth, so these are all the things that are important.
Um, you are, You're Pakistani, but you look white. So you have to, you're, you're not enough of anything, but you'll never belong anywhere else. Right? Like, these are stories that you're just given and you have to say, Oh, this is my book. Let me look at it and see what these things are about me that I have no choice in terms of how I respond to it.
And then for me, this activity of decolonizing is the activity of figuring out where does this conditioning come from? How does it. How does it manifest within me? Because each of us respond to these things differently based on our own experiences. And then, and this is the hard part, is what And I had to hire a coach for this.
What are, uh, for some of them, like some things you can do on your own, but I, what are the, the other alternative steps, right? Cause like, if you give away the book, then what, what do you use? Right? Like, what do you do? So I, I, I, you know, many things I figured out on Instagram and on YouTube, but I hired a coach for the, the, the things that I'm digging into now.
I need somebody who like is telling me things about myself I don't know, right? Like, and then I'm like, Oh my God, you're so right.
Passionistas: Did that answer your question? Absolutely. So where did this passion come from? When did you first realize that you had it?
Minessa: Um, I don't, I don't think I always had it, but I didn't know what the words were for it.
Cause growing up, so, you know, I grew up in Pakistan. I lived there until I was 22. And, um, it was interesting because I always saw myself as brown, right? I, when I see myself in the mirror, sometimes I'm like, ah, right. Because I, I just, I'm so, when I was younger, I looked different. Um, as I got older. I started to see people treating me differently, or Americans treating brown people differently, lighter skinned people treating darker skinned people differently, like there's a caste system that exists, whether we know it or not, you know, everyone would say, no, there's no caste system in India or Pakistan, but there is, and, um, I didn't, it seemed so unfair, right?
It just seemed, and so I, I knew that something was wrong, but I didn't know what. Fast forward many years, I, um, worked, uh, with Steve Sillman, who is a, um, he's a historical archeologist at UMass Boston, and he works with the Eastern Piot tribal nation doing, um, with them doing collaborative archeology. And he was part of this group of archeologists who were re-imagining what archeology could be when you are co-creating.
Um, instead of studying, you know, and, um, it was, and I had the, what a brilliant, wonderful opportunity to be on the res for a while. And, um, it was, it was, it really started to help get me involved in a lot of indigenous conversation. And so that kind of like took me a little bit further. Um, and then honestly, you know what really happened?
So when I moved to the States, assimilation was really important. So I, most people, the first thing people say about me is, Oh my God, but you have no accent. And I'm like, yeah, because I worked really fucking hard to get rid of it. Um, and I now as an adult understood that I had colonized myself really actively.
Like I was a perpetrator of my own colonization. And to assimilate into whiteness and completely bury every part of my brownness and daciness and everything because then I was invisible. Nobody would see me. I was safe. Um, I would be, you know, uh, my last name used to be Mushtaq. When I was Mushtaq, I was pulled out for random screening every single time I was at the airport.
Once I got married, I have never been pulled out since. Not one time. Um, and so. I started to feel a yearning and I started to feel a loss and I realized that I missed myself. I missed myself a lot. And this was, and this, and then at the same time, uh, George Floyd was murdered. And so this, all of these things sort of came together.
So I would say about five years ago is when I started the journey and like actively and intentionally. Those first two years were fucking, can I swear? Yeah, we're brutal. They were so brutal. Like it was like, you know, it was unbecoming of every like, because those were those were the overt, the racist stuff, the transphobia, all the things that like, you don't even know exist, and you're just getting rid of it, like all of it, right?
And you have to get over your own self, right? Because like, you know, because it was all about my own damn self. Oh, my God, I feel so bad. I feel so bad. I have to get past that. Um, Transcribed by https: otter. ai And I think once I got past the hub, Toy Smith, who, um, she, uh, run, created Loving Black Single Mothers, she was one of my coaches, and she helped me to understand how to I reworked my business entirely so that I was living in alignment with that.
And then, you know, one thing led to another and it became, you, you know, you fall more and more in love with it as you keep going. But I would say like it was a rocky start.
Passionistas: So what, what parts of yourself that you had missed, have you reconnected with that are kind of most significant to you?
Minessa: Uh, well, one is I speak Urdu more.
Um, and I have found ways to connect with my language in ways that I didn't before. I've reconnected with some of my family members, which I, you know, there were a variety of reasons, but I reconnected with them, which was really nice. But more than that, I've actually, I work with A. J. Singh, and he is a, he's my decolonization coach.
And, um, They also, so what's really interesting is I could sense that I needed to get into yogic philosophy, right? But I couldn't find someone, I couldn't find what I was looking for. Cause I'm not looking for the poses. I'm looking for like the philosophy of life, like something that's, and I can feel the yearning for it in like my bones, right?
Uh, it's my ancestral wisdom, but I needed to find someone who was like of my people to help me and I couldn't, right? So I'm on a call with him this one day. It's this is really cool, right? And so we're doing this decolonization work and they're showing me step by step. I'm like, oh my god, you're so smart and blah, blah, blah.
And so they said, okay, so once you throw out this framework, when you say, okay, I'm going to say that I'm no longer going to subscribe to the colonial framework or the capitalist framework, or what then becomes your guidance, right? How do you, how do you define that? How do you decide that? And so I said, well, you know, I.
I'm really yoga. I've been looking for a yoga teacher and, and they said, I'm about to get certified next week and we're putting together their packages. And so one of the, is we now meet every other week and we work on mudras and we work on our, our mantras and we work on, it's just, it's, I feel like I'm, and then what's interesting is, so he read something out to me in Sanskrit, right?
And I speak Urdu and Sanskrit is an ancestral language to Urdu. So there are some words in there that when they get translated into English, they mean something different. Like there's many different words that you can use, like to say the same thing. So like one person may say unhappy, one person may say sad, but like in Urdu, like you just kind of know what it means, right?
And so I got fascinated and I thought to myself, you know what I need? I need to find someone who is. Basically talking about the, the, the Sutras in Urdu, right? And so like, and so now I, so it's connected with my language. So it's been actually really, really, uh, that's been the most exciting because I'm like, Oh my God, I can feel chills, chills.
Passionistas: That's amazing. Um, so what brought you to the U. S. in the first place?
Minessa: Uh, college, actually, so I, um, well, okay, the first time I came to the U. S. it didn't last. I came to Wanmuth, Oregon. I lived there for three months. I, the culture shock was so bad, I went back. I actually went back for Christmas and I just never came back.
So everything was left in my dorm room and just, I just never came back. Then a few years later I was also, my sister and I are very, very close. So like, you two, like, we're so close. And being away from her those three months was like, I thought I was gonna die. And so, because we didn't, we couldn't just call, right?
You had to actually book a call in those days from Pakistan. You'd call the operator and be like, I'd like to book a call. They'd like connect you, like, you know, with the thingy. There was, we had like the early days of the internet where you were like, Oh my God, it was delightful, but we just, we couldn't keep in touch.
Um, so I went back and then in 1997, I can't, I got, I saw, I went to Emerson college and I was going to be a music video director and Saira came the next year and so like that first, that one year without her was awful. Um, but, uh, yeah, no, so that's, so that I ended up staying and I was like, and I never left, I ended up moving further and further out, you know, like as you do, you start in Boston and then you go further and further out.
Passionistas: That's how it works. Yep. I went west. I went, I kept going west and ended up in California. That's the other direction.
Passionistas: So what drew you to want to direct music videos?
Minessa: Oh my God, the music video for Closer. Um, Nine Inch Nails. Oh my God, like I wanted to make music videos that like would mess with people's heads.
I really just liked, I liked, I liked the short form of it. Like when I look back now, I can see I like the short form of it. But I really loved mixing mixed media. Um, I thought it was fun and I ended up going to college and I switched to a variety of different things and I finally ended up with like new media which is what they called web development in those in those days and like CD development and like whatever it was that um you know I had it was nice so so I had so many friends who went graduated and now they're like doing all this great stuff in Hollywood and I'm like oh my god I remember when we were all little and we Yep.
That's so funny.
Passionistas: So you were at Emerson in 97?
Minessa: Yeah, 97 to about 2002 or three. Like we, we were, we've ended up taking, going slow at the end.
Passionistas: Okay. Cause that was the early days of my husband and I having a theater company in Boston. We did Curly the Musical. It was our musical in the theater district. And Curly, I would say about 75 percent of our cast was Emerson students.
Minessa: Was Emerson students! Oh my gosh, that makes perfect and a lot of my friends were actors, so I bet you dollars to donuts one of them was in one of your shows. God, it was so long ago. Like, when I think back, I'm like, holy shit, like, that was like 30 years ago. Yeah. Was it 30?
Passionistas: Yeah, it was 30 years ago. Yeah, I know, right? Every time I try and do that math, I'm like, no, that can't be right. It's like, I gotta get the calculator.
Minessa: For me, it's like the 80s were 30 years ago, right? But you know, everything was 30. Everything was like 20 years ago. Everything was like, just yesterday. I have ADHD. I have time blindness. It's either now or not now.
That's what I got. That's all. That's all we all have. That is very deep right there. I like it. I dig it. It's true. It's true.
Passionistas: So you also had some crazy jobs. So tell us about being a bouncer at a nightclub.
Minessa: Oh my God, that was like the best job. It was so good. So if anybody was ever at the Paradise, uh, in Boston, I was a bouncer there for like two years.
My sister's, uh, boyfriend at the time, husband now is the manager or something. It was really funny is he didn't want me to get that job and I kept asking him to get me the job and he wouldn't. And I know now why he didn't. Like, he was trying to protect me from myself. Um, but fortunately, he didn't succeed.
And I had two years of, like, all I did was go to shows, go to shows. And we used to say, you play at the Paradise on your way up, and you play at the Paradise on your way down. But like, but I got to see some really, really great shows. Um, and, uh, it was, it was really good time. It's funny now when I think back, like, I don't know how I, I used to, like, hang out, drink all night, And then wake up the next day, work all day.
Like I didn't even sleep. I was just like rotating. Like just, and I could do that for days. Now, if I sleep in for one hour longer or go to bed an hour later, well, I'm just fucked. When does that happen?
Passionistas: Happens around 45, I think. Um, 47. So there you go. Aggressively worse. And if you stop drinking any kind of caffeine, it's even more intense.
Minessa: Um, gosh, I don't know if I can give up my Dr. Pepper. It's like, it's the elixir of life.
Passionistas: I accidentally bought caffeine, a caffeine free version of my tea a couple weeks ago. I didn't know there was a caffeine free version. And like three o'clock in the afternoon, I was like, I literally can't lift my arms. I don't know what's happening. It's like, I don't understand what's happening, but I really need a nap. Oh my goodness. Um, so what's your craziest bouncer story?
Minessa: Oh my God. Oh, okay. Wow. Okay. So it was the night that the Paradise got shut down. Um, so we are, it's a, I can't remember what night it was, but it was like a, it was the, do you remember the Pogues?
Yep. Okay. Shane McGowan and the Pogues were playing at the Paradise and big Irish band for anybody that doesn't know. And, um, Shane McGowan, notorious drinker. And, uh, sold out show. And so the show was supposed to be like doors at eight, show at opening band at nine, and then they go on at like 10 or 11, right?
And it was 10. And so the show is, um, everybody's there. It is so packed. It's like so packed. I can't even, like, you can't even move. Now I was, I was, I'm short, but I had my attitude, right? And so people always said, could you throw people out? And I'm like, Absolutely. And they're like, they listen to you. When I was big guys, I was like, it's all about your attitude.
And also I had a couple of really big guys I could call if I needed to, but like, I really never had any issues. I just be like. You, get out. Um, and the thing that I would catch people for would be, like, people who were trying to give underage people drinks, right, and I was really, I had the eye for it. So, that night, everybody's drinking, you have like a, what is it, 700 drunk Irish people in the, in the room, everybody's drinking, drinking, drinking, the opening band goes on, they come off.
Then, everybody's drinking, getting progressively drunker, and, um, Shane McGowan, the band doesn't go on. And then the clock is ticking, clock is ticking, Billy's in the back trying to like get, you know, everything happening. People are getting rowdy, they're drunk and angry now, and everybody's screaming and yelling, it's a whole thing that's happening, right?
Now, my sister's boyfriend was working that day, as was Christian, who's a tall guy, reminded me of Gene Simmons, I fucking loved Christian. Loved him, he had this long coat. And um, So, it's like 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock, some guy is starting to get very angry and I'm like, and he's trying to give a sign, I'm like, Hey, listen, you need to calm down.
He puts a cigarette out on my head and I'm like, dude, what the fuck? So, and I, I don't have a scarf from it, which is surprising, but so he must have put it out somewhere like else, but he did, so he puts it out on my head and I'm like, what the fuck, dude? They threw him out. Now, Shane McGowan gets on stage finally at like 12.
35. He gets on stage, moves out, he's fucking drunk out of his mind. And he sings one song, everybody's all excited, this is great, he throws his Kahlua in the crowd, gets everybody covered in Kahlua, Thank you Boston! Goodnight! Turns around and walks off the stage. And here's the funny thing, Billy, who's standing at the door of the stage, he just spun him around.
Okay, he kept walking, got back on the stage and played the rest of the show. Now what ended up happening was there was a huge riot in there that night because everything went so late and he didn't want to play anymore after doing the show. And so people started to get really ruckus and um, there ended up being like a huge fight.
My sister's boyfriend husband, uh, got his jaw broken. And he was out of commission for a while. Christian chased the guy down. Um, I got the cigar put out on my head and they shut down the Paradise that night. And so the Paradise was then shut down for like two weeks. Everybody got fired. And then they brought us back a couple of weeks later.
Like they, they brought new management in and a whole new set of people. And then they just reset everything. And I ended up going back and working for another, I don't know, six to eight months, but Butch never came back. He actually, I don't know what he ended up doing. Oh, he ended up working down, um, You know down in Tremont Street by the Dunkin Donuts that's on the corner, there's a little alleyway and there's a bar in there, a club, he used to work at that club.
Oh, wow. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Yeah.
Passionistas: The Boston music scene's not for the faint of heart.
Minessa: It really isn't. So, like, seriously, like, it's not for me anymore. I have the faint, I am the faint of heart. Yeah.
Passionistas: I know. I think of the things that we used to do and it's like, my biggest memory of the paradise is, is Nancy let me use her social security information to get a fake ID.
So I was Nancy Harrington. Nancy didn't know that I let my best friend also get an ID with Nancy. Oh, using your social security. So there were three of us and one night Nancy and Kristen and I went to. The Paradise and we usually timed it really well so that we didn't go in together but Nancy happened to be kind of like right in front of us so Nancy went in and then I couldn't, I couldn't let her know that Kristen had a different ID so we basically had to go in back to back.
So there were like three Nancy Harringtons that went in within like, Five minutes of each other. That's amazing. And luckily they didn't notice, but I was like, it was one of the, you know, as a 20, as a 19 year old, it was one of the most terrifying. Oh my God, you're like, oh my God, they're not going to take it.
They're not going to take it. They're going to know. They're going to know. We're all going to go to jail. Nancy's never going to speak to me again. I love the paradise. Clearly it worked out. It worked out fine. We're still here. We're still friends. You were not the bouncer that night with your eagle mouth.
So, but then another career move I wanted to hear about was you said you were an archaeologist at some point.
Minessa: I was an archaeologist, yeah, for um, that. Oh, that was so fun. Like, that was really fun. Um, So I came, so I decided to go back my, after my mom died, I had like this, you know, you have this moment where you're like, what the fuck am I doing with my life?
And I got a divorce and I got an even, it was the weirdest divorce ever, right? Like, I just wanted out and he was such a nice guy. So I was like, I don't want any money. I just want to leave. And he was like, please take some money. So it was like the weirdest thing ever. So like, he's like, take some money.
And I'm like, No, I don't want any money because he'd inherited all much money. Um, so I had some money. And so I decided to go back to school and be an archaeologist. And I, um, it was this was so I decided I wanted to go into historical archaeology. And what's really interesting is my capstone project, So I was on the project for my, uh, was, uh, my, uh, was, um, on third, on the third gender and being transgender.
And at the time I did not know I was trans, but I did this whole paper on it because I had, it's like, I feel this connection. I don't know why I just feel this connection. I'm going to write on this. Um, so I, uh, Steve Silliman, who changed my life in so many ways, he's a gentle, brilliant man. And Amy Denowden were the two teachers who really took an interest in me and worked with me and.
Also with the Eastern Pequot Tribal Nation and at the time they were getting their, um, they were trying to get their, um, federal recognition. And so there was so much work that was being done and, um, we, oh, this is actually a really good story. So we were on the site, I went two years in a row and we spent a lot of time on the reservation, was deep, deep in the reservation.
And one of the most difficult things about, um, archaeology is knowing what time period You're in, right? Like, because you can look at the pots and you can look at this and be like, okay, generally speaking, we're looking at this phase period, right? But to, like, be able to say, I know this date is very difficult.
So this one year, most of the time, you'll move from one pit to another to another. You'll, like, dig painstakingly with your fork, just so painstakingly scrape things off with your fork. Takes forever. But you're only in one pit for just a little bit, then you move to another. Well, this year, I ended up in what is called a shell midden, which is like a 13 foot deep pile of shells, which is where all the trash went, which has all of the artifacts, okay?
So I'm sitting there, I never left that spot for nine weeks, and we never got to the bottom of it. Everybody else left me. They went to different parts of the res. I was the only one sitting in that spot, so two hawks and Steve would come by. So two hawks, and so this one time I'm sitting here digging, I'm now like, and I have a picture of me, I'll send it to you, where I'm like, you can see I'm at like the bottom of this pit, sitting on this tree branch, and there's like spiders that are crawling on me, and I'm like, oh, that's totally fine.
Um, But when I come home, I see a spider. I freak the fuck out. There's just something about, like, I'm sitting out there. I'm covered in spiders. Don't care. I come home. I see a spider. I'm like, fuck, away from me. This is not happening.
Passionistas: This is my place.
Minessa: This is my place. And, um. Steve went away for a bit and he comes back and while he's gone, I found a coin and the coin has a date on it.
And so when you get a coin with a date, you can date the site. And so he comes back and he's like, so how are, like, well, everybody's coming back from, cause they would pick me up on their way out because you know, everybody was elsewhere. And so everybody's walking in, there's like 15 people walking up and they're like, how was your day in your pit?
And haha, everybody's laughing. And I'm like, yeah, that's funny. I dated the site. And they were like, how did you do that? I'm like, I found a coin. It was awesome. That was like one of the best days. Um, it was awesome. I had a lot of fun there.
Passionistas: Oh my God. That is so cool. So what did you do after that job? What was the next?
Minessa: So I did that while I was being a research administrator. And so I, you know, I, what was happening? Oh, I was running out of money. Because I was living off of the money and I just didn't need a job at the time, right? But then you start to run out of it. So I needed to get a job and my sister was working as a research administrator and she said, um, you know, why don't you, why don't you do this?
And I'm like, I, you know, I absolutely can. And so I started doing that and I realized One, I like to make money, and archaeology is not a very lucrative career. Like, it's great, it's fulfilling, it's joyful, but Steve said to me once that you do this because you can't imagine doing anything else. And then I realized that the thing that I couldn't imagine doing anything else of was research administration, and so I decided to be, I, I made the choice.
So I left one at the altar and went in another direction.
Passionistas: Now, let's talk about money, because you told us that one of your superpowers is making money, which It really is. And helping other people make money. to a lot of people. So, um, did you develop this superpower, or is it something you just had innately?
Minessa: I actually think I get it from my dad. Um, so my dad also very, very, my dad is really, really good at making money, also very good at spending and wasting it. Um, and so, but like, you know, one of the, you know, I talk a lot about breaking generational curses and like so on and I think that like some of the skill sets get better and better with the age because you learn how to like use them and so I think part of it is innate.
I think the other part of it is obviously privilege, 100 percent privilege, and, um, the systems of oppression that keep other people down that push me up, but I think the important part of it is I know how to leverage those systems, and that's, that's the key, right? It's not, the systems exist, right? We all know they exist.
So the question is not so much, like, there's many people out there who are like, including myself, who are actively dismantling it in many ways, but at the same time, we're still in that system. So while we're in it, we need to win it, right? And so I, I like to figure out, so I'm autistic and I have ADHD, chronically ill.
I spent most of my life trying to figure out how to get around, you know, whatever it is that's like blocking my way. And over the years, you know, it's interesting because I didn't realize I was good at making money. I always felt we, when I was younger, we didn't have, always have, like, my dad, because he was good at making money, he'd make a lot of it and spend all of it.
So I would, sometimes we wouldn't have electricity, sometimes we wouldn't have running water, like, sometimes, like, it was, there was a whole, like, sometimes we were just really fucking poor. And then other times Like dad would come back and bring TVs and cameras and like, and then we'd have nothing, right?
So it's like really just highs and lows. Um, so like I've always felt this lust for money to like say to me and um, and so many years ago when I was, I was doing really well in my business and everything was great and I met Toy Smith and well, I was miserable.
Miserable, but making a lot of money. And I just couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong.
I'd actually just brought on 10 contractors to like help grow. We're scaling up. We're moving in this direction. I'm so unhappy. And then I read, I took this course with Toy Smith. It was called Business Beyond Profit. I think she does it now as like a masterclass. Like it was worth way more than I paid for it.
Um, it was 187 at the time. Uh, and God, I'm so lucky I had access to that. And I. She redefined, she, she made me realize that there was another, that it was my, my perspective was off somehow, right? Um, and so at the same time, my wife was the one who said to me, I've always felt like I was poor. I don't have enough money.
And she said, no, you know, here's the thing. You made millions of dollars time and time again. You just keep spending it. Right. And, and I was, Oh my God. Like, and so, so that was the one thing that was happening. And then when I met Toy, what I realized, and she and I worked together for a little bit, and that's when I realized I said, shit, I've got to shut down my business.
I need to, I need to re imagine it in the context of redistribution, in the context of creating opportunities. And that's just not how it's set up right now. And so I spent a year being really, really intentional. And so. My skill at making money is not necessarily just my skill for me. It's also that, let's say you come to me and I did this, I do this all the time.
Right. And it's not just, it's like, and it's not just money related to business. It's also like, I'm looking for a career direction or whatever. Right. You'll tell me your story. And I'll hear it and I won't know, I can't solve it for you, right? I'm not the one who's going to be like, oh, okay, this is what you need to do.
But I, I know who to connect you with, who can help you solve it, right? Cause like, I, it's not that I see to like, yeah, this is how you solve it. But I can see the, the system of problems that, that exist that are creating almost like an infrastructure that's holding you back. That's, that's almost invisible.
And a lot of us feel it and we don't know why we're not able to move forward. And you're like, okay, I can tell this person has issues with systems. So you need to talk to that person. They need a community, right? So they need to talk to the sisters, right? And like, whatever it is, I send them in that direction.
So you combine the making money skill with the, the, the Network that I have, my gift, my gift to the world is you, I want to help you make a lot of money because I, I want you to win at capitalism too, as long as the system exists. So for me, one of the most important things is, is that the people who need my help are typically the people who can't pay for the help because they have other priorities and other, they have other things going on.
And when my business existed originally, it existed where I charged people, and it just didn't feel, it did not feel right, like this gift feels like it's meant to be flowing through, like it's not, I can just tell this is not meant to be charged for. And so, um, I, um, it's, you know, I want to rephrase that.
It's not meant to exploit other people's desires for betterness to be able to, I was trying to think of like what I really wanted to say there. So, um, so anyway, so I basically shut everything down so that now I charge corporations for my research administration services. And then I just talk to people and like, someone's like, Hey, I need help.
I have three calls a week that I, anyone can book a call with me for anything and just say, Hey, listen, I need your help with blah, right. Um, and then we'll sit down, we'll talk, we'll nerd it out. We'll figure it out. That's amazing.
Passionistas: So, so who are some of the people that you've helped? Like what are some of the success stories of people that you've worked with?
Minessa: Oh my goodness. Let me think. I would have had a list ready. Um, oh my God. Okay. So, okay, so my favorite success story is, um, her name is Francesca, and I've known her for years, and she runs The Lazy Italian. You can find her on, um, Facebook for under TheLazyItalian, you can find her at TheLazyItalian. com, and she runs, uh, tours to Italy, group tours to Italy, or she'll put together I'll see you And culinary tours, culinary tours of Italy.
And she's a brilliant chef. She's so well traveled. She's, she's just in, she goes to Italy all the time. She's fabulous. And I actually know her, I met her when I was working at um, as a research administrator and we were working on the same, I worked, she was the, Uh, program manager for the department I was doing the grants for.
And then over the years we stayed in touch and she kept, you know, she's like, you know what? I want to, I want to work with you. So she decides that she's going to quit her job and she's going to do, um, these tours full time. Okay. So because she's building it up. And so this is, what year was this? Oh, I know what year this was.
So she quits her job and That was February of 2019.
You're like, shit, I know where this is going. Uh, so like, she's like, oh my God, what the hell do we do? And so I'm like, don't worry. Because my belief, and this is part of, I think, one of the secret sauces, I'm going to give everybody the secret sauce now to making money, okay, so you can, everybody can have this, um, any obstacle can become an opportunity.
The question is, how are you going to reframe that, right? So in this moment, COVID was an obstacle. So we talked about, how are we going to turn it into an opportunity? And what we ended up doing was, is we realized that people were at home, everybody's baking bread, like, the bread craze, but, so she started doing, um, Um, you know, because we, one of the most important things, and I said this story, I said, you've got to build your engine and you have to do that anyway.
So now that we're here, let's just spend the time building the engine. So we built out her, um, her user journey, which is like my favorite thing in the world, uh, to build. Um, I, I like to call it like filling that, you know, that, that bridge in Indiana Jones when, in the Temple of Doom, the wooden one, right, that has all the holes in it.
And a lot of people think that like, Oh my. My website's so easy to follow and people can buy and it's so fine and it's like, dude, there are holes in your bridge that people are falling in and they're just like falling to the pits and you are just losing them and so we kind of, we fixed that up and she started doing a bunch of things to generate interest in her, um, content.
in the cooking classes. And what ended up happening was the cooking classes did well. Her, she, her Facebook page, she's so killer at Facebook. Like we talked about like what to share and what not to share. It was just so fun. Right. Cause like, what do people love about Italy? So we really got into like what people adore about it and how she could just harness her love for Italy to excite other people.
And what ended up happening is when she, as things started to open up again, not only did she sell out, she had to add more tours and more tours and more tours. And like, it's just, So, she kept a tourist business open during COVID, which is like, that is just amazing. Right after she quit her job, like, I was like, oh my god, we're just going to be like, Wow, that's incredible.
Passionistas: We need to meet her.
Minessa: Yes, definitely. So, head over to the Lazy Italian. Her If nothing else, the pictures that she posts, I, like, I don't know where she finds them, but these are some of the most beautiful photos of Italy I have ever seen. Like, they are so nice, and that's, she gets millions of likes now. She just, like, she's just gone in totally fabulously.
Passionistas: Well, we need to talk to her because one of our dreams for the Passionist is, is uh, Amy has found a village in Italy that we can rent. And uh, so we're gonna , oh my gosh. We wanna have a passionista retreat there. So, , that's it. Sounds like we were meant to meet her, um, .
Minessa: Oh God. She would, she would love the Passionista actually, now that I think about it, I should reach out to her once this comes out.
I'm gonna actually send this to her and be like, 'cause she's so. Brilliant. And she's like, I just, I want everybody to meet her and everybody to see her site.
Passionistas: Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. So you told us when we talked before that you figured out the code to what businesses are doing wrong. So, what is that path that they need to lead their customers down?
Minessa: So the thing that almost everybody gets wrong is they think that they need more customers, right? They're like, I need to find more customers. They don't need more. They need to find more, right? So to a person, every time I ever took on a client, you know, what's the problem? I'm not making enough money. They would think that they needed to find more customers.
And what they didn't. Recognize was one of two things were happening. One is they were actually really good at finding customers. Like they were finding them everywhere. What was happening was that they had a black hole right inside the, right inside. And then they like open the door and then just people just fall in.
Right. And so the problem was, and so now the more effort they put into finding people, it doesn't matter because the more you find, there's more people you're sending through the black hole. So this then becomes, you know, Soul crushing because you wonder what is wrong with me? Like, why isn't anybody, you think the problem is one thing, but it ends up being.
And I, what ended up, the reason why I figured this out was I was like, I was coaching a lot of people and I started looking, cause people were doing all the right things. And I was like, why aren't they succeeding? Like they're literally doing all the right things. Something is missing. And so I went, I started doing analyses of just everybody.
And I, as I started to know, I realized I don't, most people's. Businesses are a hodgepodge. If I have a website, I have a social media, I have a this, but there's no journey that says, okay, hi, like think about if you are on the highway, right? And you're driving, la la la la, and you see a sign for McDonald's, right?
And you're like, You're, you know, you'll see it and you're like, Oh, you know, I want McDonald's or Cracker Barrel or whatever it is that we've decided. And you're like, I want to eat there. Okay. There's a sign. It's going to be exit 52. So it's telling you that. Then as you drive, you might see a big old M up there.
You're like, okay, I'm getting closer. There's a sign that tells you that. Then there's another little blue sign. You get off the exit. Okay. And then there's usually a sign at the end that says go right for McDonald's or go left for McDonald's, right? So you go right. Now, what happens if you drive for like three blocks or so and you don't see a McDonald's?
You're like, huh, did I miss something? Am I going in the wrong place? Because you're not seeing a sign to tell you you're in the right place and to keep going. And you keep going and eventually you hit McDonald's, right? And it says turn right and you go there. We have to think of the entire, like visualize the actual.
And that's the process that your customer is going through. So now you find someone on, I, the one thing I would see a lot of is this is a post that says blah, blah, blah. Buy this dress. Right. Cause I used to work with a lot of boutique owners. There's no link for the dress. There's no way to buy the dress.
I spent 20 minutes looking, and I'm doing this because I'm doing the experiment, but I'm like, nobody's going to spend that much time. Like after 30 seconds, they're out. They're like, you have three seconds. If they feel confused in three seconds, they'll bounce. So the key is you want to figure out what happens.
And Donald Miller says this, imagine that there's, take a stranger, sit them down. And say, go through my site and buy something. Find this, right? So what you're really looking for is where everything that you post, everything that you do has to have a signpost that leads someone to something else that either gets them to Take action in some way or buy from you, right?
Your website is amazing. Like you go through, I come in, I see what I need. I go in, I click, I go, like the user journey took me where I needed to go. And I was there, right? And I bought because the more free flowing it is, the more we get into like the, the flow. But the second I feel even the slightest bit of discomfort, I'm out.
Right? So that's something I think that a lot of, like, the thing that they don't know is that you are better at finding people than you think you are. You are so much cooler than you think you are. It's not that people don't like you, it's that they're finding you and there's a hole in the floor right as soon as they open the door, right?
And so they're just falling in the pit and you're like, oh, where are all the people? They're in the pit.
Passionistas: Right. So circling back to the beginning of the conversation and the topic of decolonization as it relates to all of this work that you're doing, um, can you talk about that and kind of the intersection of, um, working with people from marginalized communities and these topics?
Minessa: Oh my God. Yes, absolutely. So, okay. Where to start? So, for me, one of the, um, I don't work so much with business owners anymore, so what we're talking about in this context was really all, like, more business owners and customers, but since I typically work for bigger corporations and, um, what's the word I'm looking for?
Health centers, not health centers, healthcare systems, and so on. The sphere that I'm in now is more about is research administration, right? And research administration is an incredibly, incredibly lucrative, uh, career that, um, has long term growth capabilities. It's really fun if you like to juggle a lot of different things.
And my sister and I have talked about this. Often, it is uniquely designed for marginalized people who are typically in, who are marginalized communities. And the reason why is because anyone who is part of a marginalized community or has intersectional identities in that space has spent their entire life trying to figure out how to work in a system that's not designed for them.
Right. They're trying to figure, and that is what research administration is all about. It's how to figure out how to make things work because everything is, it depends situation. Everything is, and so there's, we're uniquely equipped for that. Neurodivergent folks tend to be really, really good at it because of the way in which we hyperfocus and the way in which we can bounce between a lot of different things.
Um, this is also a career that is excellent for people who are transitioning from. One career to the next. So like, this is a really good bounce to career. Now there's a few things to go with that. So the first is, is that, um, we, we are still part of the system. And so there are, there is a not great representation.
And for me, one of the biggest passions is how do I create a pipeline from the org, from these communities that I care so much about, and that I'm involved in to this very lucrative space so that I can give, so I can create access to these opportunities. So, I built this whole thing, okay, and Saira and I have been building it together for a very long time, so my sister and I, this is my, my sisters and my project, this is what we do.
So the first is you have to find all the people. Well, the good news is we were part of these communities and so finding the people is fairly easy. However, we still work with, um, I work with the African Bridge Network, um, to, they, who, where they find, uh, work with Africans, actually immigrants now, immigrants who, like many different, from many different countries, who, they come to the states with advanced degrees, but they're not, they can't get jobs doing that because they're not American citizens.
They're not United States certified, which is ridiculous, but that's neither here nor there. So, but there's brilliant, brilliant people, um, who I want to give this opportunity to. And so they have a whole process that they move people through. The next question became, how do you train these people? So part of my MTV channel, Minessa.
TV, and then, uh, my sister does a lot of training work as well. Generate what is needed to create the support for the people that we bring through so that they then can have support in these organizations while they're doing the research administration work because you can go through a pipeline program, learn what you need to learn in like 12 weeks, dive in, and then you really just need the support to be able to continue.
And that's where, where I come in. Okay. So, um, the other side of it is we're embedded in various communities, uh, for career and professional development afterwards so that once you now are in it. You can, because there's like a five year sort of thing where after like that point you can now start to get, you know, move up and move to different organizations and whatever.
While all this is going on, I am doing a giant campaign to raise everybody's salaries because I think that the salaries that we get paid now is kind of shit. Like I get paid a lot because I'm a consultant and some people do get paid a lot but the truth is is that this job Is worth a hundred thousand dollars if you know nothing about it, but if I decide you have the capacity, if I'm like, wow, you have the mind, you're so on this, just being the sort of person who would excel at this job makes you a hundred thousand dollars flat, right?
We're at the stage in our career right now in our industries development, where I said that in a meeting and people clutch their pearls. So I don't think they're quite ready for that, but like I am out there right now. Like people know me as the salary and I'm trying to amplify voices of people like Dorothy Mashburn, um, who talk about, uh, and she is a Ledeifel Desi woman who, um, talks about how to get more money, negotiate better as a person of color, as a marginalized community.
So I know that's a really long fucking answer, but I'm so excited about this particular pipeline. I've been trying to build it for like four years. And I remember when I first started, I was like, this is too big. I'll never be able to do it. But over the last several years, like, you put it out into the universe and the people that I needed to, like, create the journey that is necessary, and we're nowhere near done.
Um, and I think for me, the hardest part is recognizing that I will not probably be the one to see the fruits of this labor. This is about the seven generations that come beyond that are going to, like, really re like, my sister's kids, I don't think I'm gonna see what I'm trying to, what the vision that I have, but I'm definitely gonna get us on the road to it.
And I'm definitely the disruptor. Like, I am a fucking disruptor. I'm sorry. I feel like I talked a whole lot right there.
Passionistas: Oh, it's great. It's perfect. It's what we wanted to hear. Love it. Love it. So what, what are we not asking you that we should be asking you?
Minessa: Oh my God. Oh, geez. I didn't even think about that.
Like, who's my favorite band? Um.
Passionistas: Who is your favorite band?
Minessa: Huh?
Passionistas: Who was your favorite band?
Minessa: Oh, well, you know who my favorite band was for many years was Duran Duran. Like, I've seen them, like, 12 times, like, they are so good. Um. But right now I'm really into this, um, little, little band from Norway called We The North.
And they, like, have, like, they're just, like, it's, you know, it's one guy on a keyboard. And, uh, it's just, that's sort of, that's sort of what I'm doing.
Passionistas: Who are your kind of top three people that you would recommend to us and why?
Minessa: Okay. All right. Number one is going to be Maria Milagros. She was, uh, so she is from NAIDIC.
Uh, she wrote a book called, uh, Super Sparkly Everything. And, um, she is my, uh, she was my TED talk coach and, but so much, so much more than that. And she, she, she Uh, she was on my podcast and what we talked about really was how the impact of the stories that we tell ourselves are so important and like, because of the work we did together, like, she really helped me a lot in like, reframing language, you know, and in, um, and so I think that that was, that's a really, really big one.
Maria Milagros, she's amazing. She's also an incredible speaker. So, um, like if anyone in Massachusetts is looking for a speaker, she's so good. Um, she will light up the room. Um, let's see, who else? Um, oh! Shameless plug. Shameless plug for my sister. Like, I was thinking, it's like, I, I guess, so I've gotta, I've gotta talk about my sister.
Um, there are very few people in this world who have the ability to see to, like, the core of an issue and who knows you, I mean, I'm sure you two don't know what I'm talking about here, who know you so well that Like if they, one, you sometimes don't talk to them because you know that the second they talk to you they'll know exactly that like they'll say something that they'll give you your advice that you need to hear but you're not ready to hear it yet and so you're like I'm not going to talk to you right now or you're going to tell me that what I'm doing I shouldn't do and I already know that so I'm not going to tell you that.
Um, so but she has been like my guide over the years like has been such a such a powerful, um, force and, um, She, you know what, if you want to talk about somebody who's good at making money, it's her too. So Saira is also a boutique owner and a jewelry designer. So she does so much stuff, but her favorite thing is making jewelry and she loves to create.
So these are some of her pieces and she made one that I'm going to show you this one because it has a star on it and it's like so freaking cute and she made it just for me and I'm like, so here, I'm hoping that the star will show you. Do you see the little star? Oh, yeah. Oh, that's great. So she is, uh, uh, so she writes Twisted Valley and she also, let's talk about like this woman who just decides she's going to do shit and then just does it.
She wrote a fucking book with her daughter, who was eight at the time, called Beastie and Badalina Go to Space. She dedicated it to my mom. It was, I mean, like, she just decided she was going to write a book. Um, so Cyra is one of those people who, um, she brings joy wherever she goes. And in, um, and the reason why I would recommend checking her out on Facebook, look for Twisted Valley.
And her community, it's just a little Facebook, it's a Facebook group community, but typically she's, you know, she sells clothes and, and it's a boutique. But, um. It's a really good, it's a really actually great place to go if you are also a small business owner who wants to see how to run a like a small group on Facebook where you're generating sales and generating interest and things like that.
And we've been doing that for like, I mean, almost 10, 15 years now. Um, so she is excellent that she doesn't teach it officially, but you can always, um, always go to go and watch. And I think Dorothy Mashburn is, So she was also on my podcast and her passion is people getting the money they deserve, that they are worth what they want to charge, whatever it is, whether it's the raise, whether it's asking for more money, you know, whatever those things are.
And so she's come up with a lot of systems and strategies. Um, she's, uh, she has a lot of intersectional identities. And so she is coming at it, not from a, You know, not from a space of not having experienced it, but really like how do you deal with those kinds of things as a person of color, as a woman? Um, you know, because it's all well and easy to be like, I'd be confident and do that.
But like, if you don't have a Like a, like a plan in place, which she really, she talks about. Um, and the reason why I want to give that plug for her is because I am just abashed at how little people are paid for how incredible they are and that kind of exploitation by capitalism, right? Because it's all, I call them the four horsemen of our conditioning.
Like it's a whole, you know, they're all, all together. It's put us in this position where we're afraid to ask for more because we don't feel like we deserve it, or we don't feel like we're going to get it anyway, so why bother, or whatever, right? And, um, the only way that that changes, I think, is if we each individually, one at a time, get the tools we need, slowly start to make the change, and then over time it does rise, but like, I like to get the word out for Dorothy because I think that that skill is so powerful.
Um, To create equity, like you can't create equity if you don't know how to ask for it.
Passionistas: Amazing. Amazing. All right, so we have uh, one last two part question. Okay. Which is what is your dream for yourself and what is your dream for women?
Minessa: Oh my god, my dream for myself. Is to be at peace. I don't know what that feels like, but, uh, I feel like the life that I live is incredibly blessed. Um, I don't, I can't, there's not a thing that I want, like there's, I feel very satisfied in my, in my life, but, um, there is so much turmoil that just exists because of, I mean, everything, right?
Uh, and so I would like to feel at peace. Um, so I think that's my dream for myself is to say I'm enough and believe it, um, and not have it just be an affirmation. Uh, and my dream for women is the same. My dream for women is that, you know, that you can say I'm enough or like I'm worth it and not, not the, because I'm worth it, but like the, you know, cause we can all say it that way.
Um, but you know, like to, to really say that I am worthy of rest, I am worthy of love. I am worthy. I deserve it. Um, you know, I feel like so much of the Four Horsemen conditioning is this belief that we don't even deserve it, right? So like, so we don't allow ourselves to be enough. So I, my wish for myself and for women is the same, um, is that, that we say I'm enough and we believe it.
Passionistas: Thanks for listening to The Passionistas Project. Since we're not only business partners, but best friends and real life sisters, we know how unique and truly special our situation is. We know so many solopreneurs, activists, women seeking their purpose, and more, who are out there doing it all on their own.
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