Finding Your Voice — Megan Hamilton on Speaking and Confidence
Megan Hamilton is a speaking, visibility, and confidence coach, a speech director, a musician, and a speaker. She is anti-patriarchy, pro humans, and believes that the world can change once folks feel empowered to use their voices and we finally hear from their leader, from new leaders.
Listen to the Full Episode.
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ON THIS EPISODE
[00:01:19] Megan Hamilton on what she is most passionate about
[00:06:03] Megan Hamilton on her childhood and what started her on her path
[00:17:37] Megan Hamilton on a pivotal moment in her career
[00:23:37] Megan Hamilton on why 73-78% of people have a fear of public speaking
[00:33:51] Megan Hamilton on shadow work
[00:44:41] Megan Hamilton on standing, breathing, speaking and reading
[00:50:13] Megan Hamilton on how people can work with her
[00:56:18] Megan Hamilton on what is her dream for herself and for women
TRANSCRIPTION
Passionistas: Hi, we're sisters, Amy and Nancy Harrington, the founders of The Passionistas Project. We've created an inclusive sisterhood where passion driven women come to get support, find their purpose, and feel empowered to transform their lives and change the world. On every episode, we discuss the unique ways in which each woman is following her passions, talk about how she defines success, and explore her path to breaking down the barriers that women too often face.
Today, we're talking with Megan Hamilton, a speaking, visibility, and confidence coach, a speech director, a musician, and a speaker. She is anti patriarchy, pro humans, and believes that the world can change once folks feel empowered to use their voices and we finally hear from their leader, from new leaders.
She's also a professional tarot card reader and recently created a coaching program that embraces tarot with transformation coaching. So, please welcome Megan Hamilton.
Megan: Hello, you both. I'm so glad to be in your presence once again.
Passionistas: We're so happy to have you here. This is long overdue. So Megan, start by telling us what you're most passionate about.
Megan: Yeah, I mean, really smashing the patriarchy. And, um in all of the different ways. And I, you know, like, I know we sort of say that and sometimes you, you know how you say something a lot and you sort of forget what it means to you and then real world events sort of help to hone it back in to the fire behind the whole shebang.
I feel like the current systems are good for nobody. I remember I saw something yesterday and I reposted it. It was, You know, um, nobody survives in the climate crisis, right? Like, nobody survives. So, um, you know, you can have all of your money, but what's going to happen? Uh, money doesn't, uh, become water when there's none left.
So, um, So, I really have been thinking a lot over the last few years about who we hear from. And I think at this particular point in time, right, it is July of 2024. We are seeing some really big, fast, terrifying changes in the world that, you know, many of us sort of, Thought would, you know, some stuff is going to have to happen.
Like this is how things were probably going to unfold, unfortunately, despite, you know, a lot of people trying otherwise. And I think that it's because the systems were not built for everybody. They were built on very problematic, um, uh, dehumanizing, not inclusive structures, um, that literally, uh, you know, tortured and oppressed people.
So that sucks and, you know, you can't, like, nothing is gonna, like, if we're still trying to stick to that structure despite its origins, then we're just prolonging the inevitable is sort of how I've been feeling. But, you know, uh, to, To take the positive spin to all of this, what I really want is for people who have not seen themselves represented in leadership, who, um, the systems were not built for them, but hey, they have really designed new systems that are inclusive.
That are great for everybody, that include our health and, you know, the, um, the saving of the, of the planet and, you know, um, slowing down and taking, you know, all things into consideration. And so once more people feel, um, that they have seen themselves represented in these sort of like higher level roles, then they will also feel empowered to speak up.
To go forward. Like we, there's so much research that shows that if you see. See yourself represented, you feel that much more inclined to try to get to those higher level, um, positions. And so what I feel like my sort of. I mean, I feel like I'm here for lots of reasons, but one of the reasons that I feel very strongly is that I can help people who traditionally don't have role models learn how to speak up, speak out, cultivate a voice that becomes stronger and stronger, and to really develop their ability to, um,
change, change the world, but through, uh, you know, speaking up in a different way with different ideas than we have previously, uh, been exposed to. How's that?
Passionistas: That's beautiful. And it's, uh, it's, that's why we get along so well, because we're all about giving a voice to the unheard. Um, and I think it's interesting to point out to people who are listening that you are in Canada.
You are not in the United States, where I think so many of our listeners are, and they immediately identify with what's happening here in the U. S., but this is a broader issue. And even in a country like Canada that I think those of us in the United States idealize like, oh, but in Canada, everything is so lovely.
Um, that there, there's systematic problems everywhere. Um, and that we need to be aware. Not only of what we're dealing with here, but what people are dealing with globally and the past issues of other countries as well. Um, so yeah, you know, so let's talk about Canada a little bit. You, um, tell us where you were born and what your childhood was like and kind of what started you on the path that you're on today.
Megan: Sure. So, yeah, so I was born in, um, I was born in Toronto, although I grew up in Mississauga. So they're, they're pretty close. And as you know, both cities are expanding. They're becoming closer, if that makes sense. It's hard to, uh, delineate where Toronto ends and Mississauga begins, uh, in a lot of ways. So I grew up in the suburbs.
Um, you know, um, Canada at the time was pretty much the same as now, I would say, uh, except that I think now we're a lot more aware of some of the stuff that's been hidden from history, like a lot of that has come to the surface, uh, finally,
thankfully, um, but it really has been exposing some of the darker, origins, um, that lots of people did already know, right?
Um, and then some people are fighting against that. So there is a lot of, um, discord happening here. There are certainly a lot of things that need to change. And, you know, I think most people outside of America know that Uh, what happens in the United States affects the rest of the world. So trends, um, you know, um, emboldenment and stuff like that.
So we all do have, um, are consciously paying attention because we know that what happens there will affect us, um, you know, sort of around the world, not just, not just those of us. What are we called? America's hat.
Passionistas: I hadn't heard that one.
Megan: That's my favorite one, America's Hat.
Passionistas: So that makes Mexico America's Pants?
Megan: America shoe? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. America is the sandwich to Canada and Mexico. Anyways. Um, so yeah, like normal childhood, normal growing up. Um, I went to university for theater and, uh, it's now called the Toronto Metropolitan University. So I have a classical theater training from, uh, at the time was one of the best schools.
And I really thought I was going to be an actor and a performer. And somewhere after about four years of doing beer commercials and having to constantly change my schedule and, you know, not actually being the right person for beer commercials. Like ever, uh, but having developed a good relationship with the director.
So I think they were just always trying, but, uh, I just said, are we allowed to swear on this podcast? I said, fuck it. Like I'm not doing this anymore. Um, it's not making me happy. It's, it's making me stressed out. And this is, I mean, I knew at 14 that I wanted to be an actor. I really was quite sure about it.
And so I always felt great that I, like, I knew where I wanted to go to university. I knew. And then I just was like, Oh my God, what am I gonna do? So, um, I, I told my agent, I don't want to go out for stuff anymore. And then I got a, um, an internship producing with, uh, one of Toronto's, uh, at the time and still is, you know, sort of, uh, best theater producers.
I mean, she's, uh, she ended up doing Uh, being the Artistic Director of Luminato, which is a huge art festival in Toronto, uh, for years as well. And so I got to learn from the best of the best. And I got to travel to Scotland to the, um, Edinburgh Festival Fringe. I got to do all of these really cool, uh, be part of all these really cool projects and just see the, how things work, like what it took to create something from start to finish.
And I think I, around that time, I got a couple of grants to do some. playwriting as well. So I wrote my own play and put it on and, um, so it was sort of a really, um, interesting time for me because it was the first time in my life I felt like I had control over what was going to happen in the sense that like, oh, I can actually just create art and do it myself.
I don't have to wait for somebody to hire me for a beer commercial. Like, um, so that felt really good and empowering and, um, sort of led to a period of time where I was, almost rediscovering myself because I'd been dealing with anxiety most of my life. I, I was agoraphobic, uh, in my early twenties and then quite depressed, undiagnosed.
We don't talk about, we didn't talk about mental health in the same way back then that we do now. So this would be sort of like late nineties, early two thousands. And, um, And therapy. I started to go to therapy. And all of these things combined really, um, helped me develop the powerful side of myself that I don't know that I had ever tapped into fully.
So then, you know, I started writing music and that was a complete Uh, a complete turn for me. I mean, I, I had never considered myself a singer. Uh, I, I'd played music most of my life, but I picked up the guitar and I started, I started writing and I started performing. And then when I left, When I decided that I didn't want to produce for other people anymore, I was sort of getting tired of it because it left me no room for me to make my own stuff.
I left everything. I mean, I think, you know, I was doing a bunch of different projects at the time. I was producing for somebody. Um, I was co producing in this, in a bunch of theater companies, uh, and people were mad at me. I had one, I had one person, I wish I'd saved it, but I deleted it because I just thought, uh, I just don't need that negativity in my email.
He basically said like, you'll never work in this town again. I was like, okay, thanks. Yeah. Thanks. I'm glad you have that kind of, uh, that kind of, uh, belief in your own power. But anyway, um, and then I just, and then I went full throttle into music and I feel that I was quite successful in, because I am somebody who likes to do all of the angles, right?
So I started a record label with my friends and I, I was a co producer in recording my first album with my friend Mark. And, you know, we went to this small, uh, community hall in the middle of Saskatchewan. And I mean like the middle of Saskatchewan. Like I tell people where we were and they're like, what?
You know, uh, in Canada, most people will know what Saskatchewan is. It's one of our provinces. Uh, and you know, I did it all myself. I did the press releases, I did the packages, I did the mailing, the, I did correspondence, the liaising, like I did the whole shebang. And So it meant that I got to do everything my way.
So in a lot of ways, I avoided some of the really creepy stuff that can happen in the music industry because I had really not enjoyed that in the, in the acting industry. Um, uh, but I, I mean, it was still there. Like you, you can't avoid it. Um, just people coming up like, Oh God. Okay. So one of my favorite stories is I was on stage.
I am getting ready to perform. I'm tuning my fucking guitar and this guy, this sound guy comes up and starts tuning my guitar while I'm holding it and tuning it. And I just said like, what are you doing? And he was like, well, I could do it faster. And I'm like, get the fuck away. I have been doing this for a long time.
Anyway, just stuff like that where you're like, come on. I like, what about everybody else here? You're going to get up and tune their guitars, but, um,
Passionistas: And I get annoyed when guys try and help me back into a parking space. I can't even imagine how I would react to that.
Megan: I know. It is, it's bananas, isn't it?
You're just like, really? You think I've never done this? But anyway, whatever. Um, so then, uh, then we sort of blew up our lives. My husband and I, uh, we left Toronto. We were sort of tired of the city. Uh, we came to Kingston. I got a job at the university. I worked there for 10 years. While I was working there, I know that I was working with law students and, uh, they were doing these competitions called moot competitions where they get these sort of fake, um, law cases and they pretend to be lawyers and come up with develop, you know, their, their arguments and stuff.
And, and they get to travel around the world. For these competitions and they were, you know, they, they did quite well, but it's also very prestigious. So they, the, the, the school wanted them to do well, because that would help attract other students. So I said, thinking, okay, well, you know, this is a great opportunity for me.
I had wanted to put some of my theater school training into practice in terms of teaching it to people. So I said to them, well, who's teaching, you know, these kids, um, performance skills. And, and nobody was. And I said, well, you know, I, I really feel like I would love to develop a program. Um, you know, will you let me work with them and pay me?
And they were like, yes. So that was 2014. And, uh, You know, things have evolved a lot since then. And yet at the same time, they're quite the same in that the basic structure of my speaking training remains what it was in 2014 when I started with those students. And it's now, I mean, it's, it's evolved.
There's like lots more stuff. I've taken tons of coaching training and, um, different modalities. And I, you know, just keep expanding how I can support folks because, you know, public speaking is. Really, uh, and that's probably about half what I do actually, but public speaking is almost never about the training.
It is all about the inner work, which is the same, uh, you know, as small business owners, we know that, right? Like one of my favorite things to say is nobody told us we were going to have to do all this inner work. I want to sign up for that. Yeah. Um, yeah. And then, and here we are. So, so now we're, um, and I'm still doing music and, uh, you know, still creating, but this, um, this work has been so, uh, it's such a privilege to get to witness people, uh, coming out of difficulty or just creating these magical, incredible talks that are life changing for the people who get to witness them. It's, it's, it's, it's a, it's wonderful. I, I, I pinch myself every day to be this lucky.
Passionistas: Was there, um, was there like a pivotal moment or something that happened that made you make the switch from your earlier creative career to this career in academia and, and public speaking?
Megan: No, not really. I mean, you know, I had a child, um, in, in 2011 and that really shifted what I could do in terms of music. I mean, I used to just head out across Canada for, you know, three weeks and, and do some touring and that was certainly not, uh, going to be feasible, uh, then. Um, but I had just started with the students cause I wanted to, and then, Over time, people found out and started asking me if I could coach them for, you know, their daughter's wedding speech or, um, a job interview.
Uh, somebody had to accept an award and give a speech, so I started working with her. And, and the more I started working with people, the more I started being really interested in it. And so I decided to and also, I was starting to see the underbelly of academia and really not enjoying it, like feeling quite, uh, I would say disenchanted, except I don't know that I was, it was always just a joe job for me.
But like, as I stayed there and saw some of the stuff that was happening, I was, it was, it was really starting to bother me. And so, I I launched UBSkills in 2018, formally, and, you know, started taking on clients, uh, on the regular, still working at my job. And then I had decided that I was going to leave in April 2020.
So I had I had started, um, a program that doesn't exist anymore, but it was wonderful. And I, I wish it still existed because I would refer so many people to it, but it was called Make It Work Online. It was this wonderful business development program with a woman named Jenny Shi. And, uh, I've, I've made friends there that are still friends to this day.
And I built my business. I built it, all the foundational pieces. And then, you know, March happened in 2020. And I thought, well, It doesn't really feel, you know, uh, like a good idea to leave a very comfy, um, job in the middle of we don't know what's, what this is going to be, how long it's going to be. So I, I, I stuck around.
But as the universe does, when you're, when you're not doing what you said you were going to do, it intervenes. So this has happened to me numerous times before, like, um, there was this basement apartment that I used to live in, in my late twenties, and it was so bad for my mental health. I was, and I was like, I need to get out of here.
But I, I, you know, the idea of trying to find an apartment was so daunting and sure enough, there was a huge flood and I had to go, right? Like, things like that. Where I know I need to be doing something better for me, but I, for whatever reason, I'm not doing it. So, um, in the summer of that year, I was told because I was, uh, the events coordinator and there were no events.
So they said, uh, you know, we're going to have to rejig your job a little bit until we know what's going on. Um, and, um,
let's just say, because I think it, I think I can't say this sort of publicly, but, uh, The universe forced my hand and it was one of those moments where I could have stayed, but I would be betraying myself. And I said, okay, that's the sign. And so I left and like, I, you know, I had been saving up for leaving.
Um, so there was that, but you know, uh, the timing was not what I had planned. Anyway. So I did it. I took the leap and, um, my last paycheck was in August. And then September was going to be my first month of, you know, of just being self employed. Uh, I'd been self employed before in different capacities, but not for a long time.
And I made zero sales. And that was the first time that it happened since I had started the business. So like the fact that it coincided with my first month, uh, but you know, what was really cool was I wasn't afraid at all. Like I, I had one moment I think where I was like, Oh boy, if this continues, this is a very bad decision.
But I really felt, uh, strongly that this was the right thing for me to do. And I knew it was going to work out. And then in October, I had a bonkers month. It just was like, like way better than I had made, you know, at my previous job. And I was like, okay, okay, here we go. Uh, and it's not just the life of a small business owner, right?
Because you just, um, I don't know about 2024 has been bananas for most of the people I know. Um, it's, it's sort of turning around a little bit and has been for the last couple of months, but January to March, April were holy moly moments. They were some challenging times. Yep. And a lot of it.
Passionistas: We feel it.bYeah. We have. Yeah. Struggle is real.
Megan: Yes. Yep. Yeah.
Passionistas: Well, I'm glad that you have the attitude that we have which is just like if you're following your purpose, if you're living your purpose, then, it's all gonna work out. Um, so, So, um, what do you think? I have, I think this is a true fact, and if not, correct me, but is, I think the fear of public speaking is like the number one fear anybody has of anything in the world, right?
Megan: Um, well, I think, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's definitely up there. It's, 73 to 78 percent of people have a fear of public speaking.
Passionistas: Why do you think that is?
Megan: Yeah, I'll tell you why I think that is patriarchy, uh, but sort of actually, um, what we have come to think of as strong leadership is what is unfolding before us today.
Uh, And so there's the, um, the bombastic, the, uh, uber confident, which I would argue is not confident at all. Uh, the, um, you know, strong statements, the, um, the, um, what's, what's that word? I always forget the word, but it's like those really, um, megachurch evangelical leaders, what are they called? Charismatic, right?
Where we sort of in like fatherly, like, um, loud booming voice. Um, you know, somebody is going to take charge. Somebody is going to tell you what to do. Like we have come to see that as sort of a model for leadership. And then if you look at some of the earlier, like if you look at, for example, so my favorite book.
And I've probably shown it to you two before anyway, is Women Empowered by Mary Beard. And so, you know, one of, one of the biggest light bulb moments for me as I was developing my, you know, the background for all the work that I'm doing is, you know, even back to the days of the early days of the forum, women were excluded.
Uh, our voices were called shrill. We weren't considered as intelligent. And as men, this stuff was so important to them. That they wrote it on the stone tablets, this stuff is recorded. And so, you know, especially as women, so then, you know, you're just dealing with the fact that you're never considered, um, as good as.
And not only that, there is an element to certain people's public speaking styles that is highly manipulative. Um, it's the same with when you feel a sleazy sales tactic and you're just like, Ooh, and yet a lot of people are duped by that. And so a lot of people don't want to get up there because they're afraid that they're going to be perceived as these people they've looked at their whole lives going, that feels uncomfortable to me.
Something is off with this. Uh, and it's the fear of judgment, right? You know, societal judgment is obviously a huge factor in it's a, it's a. Uh, control mechanism, but it's definitely a huge factor in what stops people from getting up. Um, and, uh, and also quite frankly, in school teachers are really failing when they're trying to, uh, help kids learn how to develop their voice, their public speaking voice.
And so , you know, a lot of people that I see were told you're too quiet, speak up, speak up. By a teacher who has no idea that they are putting that thought into this person's head for the next 35 years, uh, or, Oh, your voice is really annoying. Or, um, you know, uh, stop saying, um, or, ah, you sound stupid. Like that one drives me nuts because honestly, nobody cares.
So there's a woman that I really, uh, like to follow. Her name is Rena Ravinelli and she, uh, she has a speaking program. Uh, that's based out of Toronto and she talks about going on the Dragon's Den. Do you all know what the Dragon's Den is? It's like the Canadian version of Shark Tank. It actually came out first.
Yeah. And so Kevin, Kevin O'Leary is, I think he's from the Dragon's Den and then moved on to the States. I don't, I remember he was like in trouble for some boating thing a few years ago, so I don't even know if he's in the public eye anymore anyway.
Passionistas: Oh, yeah. He still, he, he survived that. Yeah.
Megan: Oh, oh, great. Um, okay, so , um, I don't mean great that he's alive because I don't think he was gonna die. I just mean great. That great that he, uh, that that didn't affect him because I think somebody died, didn't they?
Passionistas: Yeah. There was a, yeah, there was like a, a. It was a young person too that, that died in the accident.
I think it was Kevin's, allegedly Kevin's wife was driving the boat and. Yeah, okay. Collided with something and this, I believe the kid got thrown off and yeah, it's tragic, tragic.
Megan: I think it's tragic. Um, yeah, very tragic. Uh, so anyway, uh, she was pitching on Dragon's Den and. was so confident and totally screwed up.
Couldn't remember anything. Uh, knew that, you know, that there's, you know, there's all this research on like the opening line is the most important line and da, da, da, like just made all the mistakes. And absolutely screwed up and, and was like, still fought for it, but it was like, this is it. I've, I've fucked it up.
And, uh, and not so, because the message was so compelling that her delivery, uh, didn't matter. And, and this is what I say to people all the time, because I have coached TEDx talks where folks have forgotten their lines for up to a full 45 minutes. I'm like yelling at the screen. I'm watching remotely. Like somebody give her a cue.
Come on. Oh, it's terrible. But man, like she pulled it back together. Uh, and it was incredibly powerful and moving. And you know, you can, you can edit these things once they get online. So the point is you're going to make mistakes. You're going to screw up and you can absolutely come back and ultimately people care about the message more than they care about anything else.
And so, you know, when people are worried about public speaking, it's because they've been told all of these things that are wrong with them, that they, you know, internalize, uh, or worried that people are going to think they're stupid, all of these things. And then, um, Once you realize that when you're just speaking from the heart about what is important to you, you can get anybody on board.
And, and, and from with an open heart, right? With, with, um, with honesty and integrity, not with putting all of these persuasion tactics on top of things. And so that's also why there's a lot of speaking coaches or speaking styles or different things that I really don't love because they're all about Manipulation.
Um, and they would call it sales techniques, or they would call it, uh, building charm, or they would call it, you know, uh, being confident. And I would, I would absolutely, um, disagree with that and say that instead, these are just, you know, what's wrong with you as you are? Why do we have to put all of these different things on top of, um, of, of you and your integrity?
Um, so that's part of the reason why I feel You know, people, people get so nervous about it because mostly it's fear of judgment. Uh, but it's also just these internalized, um, things that people have been told. I had one woman, uh, who spoke for a living, uh, like had to give presentations all the time and she had to take beta blockers every single time because.
You know, uh, of this internalized stuff. And so that's when you talk to about the inner work, the shadow work, because you can have that training and you could do it. It's like, well, it just takes practice. Okay. Well, she had done like over 200 presentations and was still freaking out about it. And that was, so we did some shadow work.
And basically what happened was she had this ex boyfriend in her brain telling her that her voice was annoying.
Passionistas: We've heard from a couple different women. All right. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Voices annoying thing. That's interesting.
Megan: Oh, it's, it's, it's awful. And again, it goes, it's, it's talked about in here. Right? All the way back to, uh, the forums, Women's Voices are Shrill. Who wrote that book called Shrill? Was it Lindy West?
It's, you know, it's, it's, I mean, I don't even know what you say about it. We're in 2024. Why are we still talking about women's voices or anybody's voices for that matter? Also, and this is annoying as shit, but you know, there's tons of research now that shows. That people legit have higher salaries when they have lower voices and like, it's just, and so I get women coming to me and saying, my voice is too high.
I really need to lower it. And I say, okay, for who though? Like, what are we doing this for? Because if we're going to manipulate your voice in any way, that's damaging to your voice. Now, I am all for gaming the system to get ahead when it's really important and the stacks are against you anyway, right?
Like, but not to your, uh, not to your, uh, the detriment of your health. And also, Honestly, um, be anyone who gets nervous, their voice goes up and in tone. It's just sort of like a natural, because you're, you can imagine that you're clenching up. And so you're restricting your vocal cords. So they're going to be higher.
So just even learning how to relax can be helpful with that.
Passionistas: So talk a little bit, talk a little bit more about that inner work, the shadow work that you do. How do you lead someone through that and explain what that is for people who don't know?
Megan: Sure. So shadow work was coined by Carl Jung, who's having, who's having sort of another, uh, I mean, I think he's in and out of fashion in general, but I'm really happy to see a lot of people, uh, bringing him up again recently because he was very adamant.
So I will, I promise I will get to the shadow work piece. But what I love is he was very adamant that psychology and psychiatry necessarily had a spiritual element to it because of man and women. See, I almost did it myself because of humans needs for, um, meaning. And so, you know, a healthy, uh, healthy brain is also one that finds meaning, um, in living.
And we often get meaning from, uh, religion or any kind of spiritual practice that we, that we may or may not have. So I'm happy to see a resurgence in, um, his theories, but he was the one who coined shadow work. So that is, his theory was essentially. There's a lot of stuff about ourselves that we don't like.
And so it could be behavioral patterns. It could be difficult things that happen to us, stressful all the way to fully traumatic. It can be ways that we, just ways that we are that we, that we don't like. And so we often, instead of taking a look at them, we shove them down. Right. Think about, um, you know, sometimes if you're lying in bed at two in the morning and you think about all the awkward things that you've said at a party or something, right?
So those are the sort of behaviors that live in your shadow and you without examination, they sort of live under there. Um, and they rule the roost because fear, uh, unexamined will sort of take over and, and be the root for all of the, the ways that your brain gets you to do things. Um. And so the idea of shadow work is to look in there, look into your psyche, look into the unconscious, the subconscious, and shine a light and get curious.
So my approach to shadow work is very gentle. It's very, um, uh, rooted in supporting yourself and being very, very kind to yourself. You have to commit to that before you go into it because some of the stuff that comes up is going to feel really uncomfortable. So, you know, for example, um, I, there was this ex boyfriend of mine that showed up at a birthday party for me once and I got really drunk and like, I just absolutely told him off.
And like, I, oh, I was like, that would just sit with me for so many years, just of like, Oh God, I hope I know. And he became a huge, uh, I don't know if he's big in the end. I won't say who it is, obviously, but, uh, he became a huge television star in Canada. It's like, oh God. So, you know, I'm always reminded of this terribly awkward, embarrassing moment.
He's just trying to be a nice person. Anyway. Um, so that would be one of those things that I'd be like, okay, why does this? 20 years later, still fill me with dread. So I would get curious about it and I would just start writing things out. And so, uh, the way that I like to practice it is, uh, journaling. So asking yourself questions and sort of like, you keep saying why, right?
Like a toddler might say, well, why, but why? So you'd say, okay, well, why did this make me feel crappy? I was like, because it was embarrassing. Well, why was it embarrassing? Well, because I got drunk and, um, said some things I didn't want to say. Okay. Was it the truth? Yes. Okay. So, uh, so why is that embarrassing?
Well, because I was drunk. And so I wasn't able to be in my fully present self. Okay. Well, why were you drunk? Like I, you know, you just keep going and going. And then what it boiled down to is this guy really hurt me. And I expressed that in a very, you know, uncomfortable way, but ultimately it was an expression of being hurt.
And then I go, Oh, well, what I really need is some sympathy. He did hurt you and that really sucked. And you really liked him. And that's hard to admit too. But so it's normal that you would have this sort of reaction to that. And then you, and then you can go further and say, okay, well, what are other examples of this?
And so you just keep finding these connections, but inevitably, every single thing that you start interrogating comes down to a wound, whether it's, um, and usually it can even go back to childhood, right? And so once you start doing that, you develop compassion for yourself instead of hatred or shame or embarrassment.
Once you really start to figure out why you're doing this stuff. It frees you. You're shining a light on your shadow. It frees you to be able to forgive yourself, to have compassion for yourself, which consequently gives you a huge amount of forgiveness and compassion for other people. Because the more you realize where your behaviors come from, the more you realize where other people's behaviors come from.
And one of the other things, here's a great clue for you. Carl Jung talked about this too. Anything that really bugs you about somebody else? is generally something that you do that actually bugs you about you. And so every, anytime you find yourself getting really irritated with somebody, you can be like, Oh, wait a minute.
Where's this coming from? Oh, no. Not one of these again. And so what this can also do, especially for speaking is help you figure out where exactly these fears are coming from. Again, they usually come from being hurt, forgiving yourself and then saying, all right, well, you know, how, if, if I know this now, what can I do?
To change the narrative for myself, how can I change that I see myself as a poor public speaker to seeing myself as a great public speaker, or even like somebody who can get up and do it, right? So you work in increments and I talk about a visibility ladder. So it's like, we're never, we never want to throw you under the bus by like putting you in a situation that we already know is going to suck.
Unless you have to do, like, unless you've been, you know, you're scheduled to give a talk and it's really important and you've got to like, get over your stuff. Generally, we're going to work in increments of. Slowly putting yourself out there in, in ways that are slightly uncomfortable, but at least then you can acclimate to that.
And then we put out the next one. Okay. What's just a little bit more uncomfortable here. Okay. Well, let's try this. Okay. What about putting up your hand at the work meeting and asking a question? Oh my God. Okay. Well, maybe that's too much. So what about like sending an email to your boss? So we just figure out like, Incrementally, because we want to acclimate your nervous system to each new step, but we also know that there is some kind of practice that has to happen in order to get better.
So you, you know, you can't, uh, train your way to be a better public speaker. You really do have to like get out and, uh, and try it.
Passionistas: I love that. I don't know of anybody ever saying that to me before. Like Nancy and I still aren't great. or are excited about the idea of public speaking. Nancy's done more of it than I have.
Um, I still, I still, I used to drop classes when I was in college. If there was a oral presentation, I would drop the course. Um, or I would, and I would find another. You know, version of the course in a different time with a different professor, so who didn't make you do an oral presentation. So we've become really comfortable at online presentations and online doing those things, asking the question in a group Zoom or speaking or being interviewed.
But there's still that like, but now you actually have to go out in person.
Megan: Okay, so like I've been on stages since I was 14 and I'm 50 and I, um, did, uh, I I'm often asked to do, um, the Q and A's at film festivals. And so, uh, I was at the Kingston Canadian Film Festival, uh, You know, doing a ton of them. And like the first couple, I could hear my voice shaking.
I was doing all the stuff. I'm, I don't know, seasoned at this. And I'm like, God damn it. But like the difference now is I can pull myself out of it. Right? I can hear it happening and I'm like, no, no, no, you know exactly what to do. And I go back to the system that I train other people with. I go back to my body, then I move to my breath, then I move to my voice, and then we get going.
We're okay. Like I can, I can recover from it. And then even then, again, I was moderating a Q and A for a music festival in June. Same thing. I had to read, um, you know, this paper that they sort of gave to me. I was looking at it sort of in real time as I'm, uh, in front of the audience and I could hear my voice and I was like, wow, boy, still, eh?
Uh, but the difference now is that, you know, nobody really cares. Like we can tell when people are nervous. I knew that people could hear that I was nervous. Um, and for a minute I thought, oh no, people know I'm a public speaking coach. I'm ruined forever. And then I'm like, it did. Nobody cares. Everybody gets it.
And, uh, you know, the rest of the, the, nobody remembers the introduction. They remembered the rest of it, which was awesome. Also, I have to show you this. I just realized I'm holding this pen. This is from like what? Three, four years ago?
Passionistas: When we first met you, you were, uh, you did a workshop in the first Power of Passionistas Summit in 2020.
That's right. Yeah. Like in August, wasn't it? So almost officially four years ago. Yeah. Wow. Amazing. And they still work. I have a bunch of them. It does still work. Yeah. I can't believe how long this pen has lasted. I'm glad you like it. It's a good pen.
Megan: My other one ran out, so I was like, I'll take this one.
Oh, okay, here we go.
Passionistas: So you just mentioned your approach of standing, breathing, speaking, reading. Talk about that. Talk about those elements and why that's so important and how it works.
Megan: Sure. So, For the most part, we have to deal with the what to do when things go off the rails because your brain goes, and if you know what to do and you don't have to think about it, then you at least have step one.
So step one is standing. So we always start with the body. We have to get the body, uh, into, you know, uh, the most, um, effective way of presentation. So I use Alexander technique. And so we learn how to stand, uh, in the most supportive way possible, which also supports your voice, which also supports your breath.
So you know what to do. You go right down to your feet and you work your way up through the Alexander, uh, steps and you get your body into, into this sort of, uh, positive place. Then we move on to breath because when we practice controlled breathing, we are, uh, getting out of fight, flight, and freeze mode, which gives us access to our brains again.
So your brain, When you're in fight, flight, and freeze mode, your brain is flooded with stress hormones. It's flooding your body with stress hormones. It doesn't recognize the difference between, you know, getting chased by a bear or getting up on a stage. And so it's trying to get you out of there. And so that's where we have to go, actually brain, I'm okay.
So you got to stop this. And when you practice controlled breathing, which is just deciding when you're going to breathe in and when you're going to breathe out, that's the quickest. switch flip for your brain to go, okay, cool. We're fine. We're fine. So it will stop flooding you with those stress hormones, which cut you off from your memory and different parts of your brain.
So that gets that going. Plus, we're going to deepen our breath because we all know that taking a deep breath just helps us like, okay, we're doing like a reset. Then we move to the voice. So when you practice, uh, using Using your optimum pitch that is the most resonant sound that your body can make. Most of us when we're stressed speak from our throats and we get this sort of, this kind of a tone.
Often if we have been out of practice and we find yourself speaking for a while, let's say you're teaching a course or something after the second hour you're starting to lose your voice. I get a lot of teachers coming to me in October after a month of speaking again in September and realizing that they just need a refresher.
And so when you use your optimum pitch, you're creating a resonance in your voice. And that also helps to keep like it, the, the thing about the system is it all works together and works for each other. And so like actual creating vibrations through your voice also helps to like vibrate the stress out.
And that's not, I mean, like, if you heard that, you'd be like, that is definitely not science, but it absolutely is. And so when you create resonance, you're creating vibrations in your body, which help to dissipate the stress or the places where we get stuck. Uh, and the reading, is because I always advocate writing out your script ahead of time, word for word.
Because most of us, if we are stressed about public speaking and that stuff that happens to your brain starts happening and you're trying to create a first draft on the fly in front of a group of people when you already know that you're like, that you feel really stressed about this, it's just not going to happen and you're not going to represent yourself very well.
It's much, people get into their heads that great public speakers are just like, Say it or memorize it. And it's just not the case, especially now I'm finding I'm advocating more and more for clients who are doing, you know, TEDx talks where you're supposed to be memorized. And I'll say, sorry, they've had a lot of trauma.
They can't memorize things. So they're going to need a podium. And you're seeing it now. It's like an accommodation. You're seeing it now, more and more, which is great. And that's actually a really good point for anyone who's listening, who has a TEDx talk coming up or any kind of talk, you just tell them what you need.
You know how, if you're a short person, make sure you, the podium is not gonna like be over your head and ask for something, uh, different or something to stand on, uh, if you need a microphone, because, you know, if you want a lapel mic or whatever, you just ask for what you need so that you can give your best presentation.
People don't think, people don't wanna, you know, uh, what's I, I'm.
Stir up the waters. People don't want to make, uh, people don't want to make waves. There's all the water imagery all coming out at once. People don't feel like they can ask for stuff, but you can, and actually you need to because you want to make sure you're set up so that you can give the best presentation that you can give.
Once you've given lots and you can go, you can sort of roll with the punches a little bit more easily, then it's different. But when you're really trying to get comfortable, Get what you need ahead of time so that you can, uh, give your best performance possible. Because the more you do that, the more your brain starts to see you as a good public speaker, as opposed to a bad public speaker.
And I'm just using those good and bad really liberally here, but we can absolutely redefine how we see ourselves. It just involves intention.
Passionistas: Um, so for people who want to work with you, how do they do that?
Megan: Yeah. Okay. There's a few ways. Actually, I did not expect to be doing this, but I have, um, I am bringing my Thriving Visibility Program back.
Uh, we begin mid September. This is a program for small business owners who want to increase their visibility and who want to be really strong figureheads for their business. But this time. I am bringing in five or six incredible guest experts who are really, really well known for what they do. So I, until the ink is dry, I'm, I don't want to be public about it, but we have a very well known astrologer, highly beloved.
We have an incredible, uh, tarot slash ritual, um, what do I call her? Person, practitioner. She has a bestselling book that did so well in its first month, it went out of print and it's now has to be reprinted. She was actually just in LA last month, uh, and she's been on, uh, She was just featured in Vogue. So she's, she's pretty, she's pretty fancy.
Uh, another tarot practitioner who is also an author, a fiction author. So she's going to help us with creativity. And I've taken several of her tarot courses and use that in my own practice. And then we have a really, um, uh, rebellious, uh, business um, strategist. So she's going to explain to us that we can actually do business differently and, and we should, and we should do it in a way that feels really good to us and sort of how to do that.
Then we're going to work on a little bit of human design and we're also going to work on some intuition building. Um, so we're bringing in these elements because as you, as you both and I talked about earlier, the beginning part of 2024 was. So difficult. And I mean, I wanted to throw in the towel so many times.
Nothing that used to work was working. And I got, you know, scared a couple of times. But what got me through was my daily journaling, my shadow work, my tarot practice, my connection to, uh, you know, I, I have been cultivating my, Spiritual practice based on my ancestors. So I've been looking at paganism. I've been looking at animism.
I've been looking at, um, the different ways that, you know, way, way back people would have been practicing and finding a lot of great stuff in there and freedom because it's not, you know, something, um, organized. I get to do it in the way that feels right for me. And it is absolutely. Those practices that got me through and then I, so that was, I'm on the elliptical one day and I'm thinking about how much I really loved Thriving Visibility.
I didn't know why I had tried to run it in January and it, it was, I, you know, I had, I had everybody signed up and then over two weeks, everybody had to back out because of, uh, the financial climate. And, um, I was lamenting that because I really enjoy doing it because we write a TEDx style talk and then they get to perform it.
And then you have this talk that you can shop to other places or use for marketing and copy. Like it's, it's an amazing program. Uh, and then it all came down like downloads, like just like, you got to get this person in this person. You got to do this because this is what worked for you. Like this. And it's not, I don't believe actually that what works for me is necessarily going to work for other people.
It's open. What we're doing is helping people develop their own practice. Right. To get you through those hard times when you want to throw in the towel, when you're just like, this is too hard. I can't do this anymore. Um, so that's running in, in starting mid September and people are already signing up, uh, and it's a max of 11.
So it's a really small, and I also have dynamic presence, which is where you get to work with me for three months. You learn my speaking system and we build, uh, it's, you know, it's really sort of um, cater to each individual person and what they need. So sometimes I'll work with people in that capacity if they have a talk coming up or sometimes it's just somebody who wants to do better at work or who, who just got a promotion and they're like, I'm going to have to be speaking a lot more.
So I want to work on that. So that one's called dynamic presence. Uh, And those are the two main ones. There's, there's a bunch of other little, Oh, and of course, Arcana Pathfinder, which you both talked about before, which is combining, uh, transformational coaching with, uh, tarot. And that one's really fun. So I'll just be like shuffling cards.
We'll be talking about what's been happening, what they want to happen. And then we'll just sort of see, sometimes a card falls out and it's always, it's just. It's, it's bananas. It's always like exactly, it's also, it's either the exact replica of what we've just been talking about, or it's like, No, actually, you're ignoring this.
And the person's like, damn it! Tara's like, you needed to know.
Passionistas: That's amazing. Yeah. Our friend, our friend Missy reads cards and she always said, the card is jumping out. The card is jumping out. I never knew what that meant until I just bought a deck of cards to play with, just to see. And one day it just was like, It's like,
Megan: yeah, you got to pay attention to those ones, right?
They're just like, they're like, you are not getting away without this.
Passionistas: It's the other version of the universe pushing you, the universe flooding your apartment.
Megan: Exactly. Yep. Exactly.
Passionistas: Well, I can't believe we've, this hour has flown. So we just quickly, one last two part question that's a little quick, easy answer.
What is your dream for yourself? And what is your dream for women?
Megan: Oh boy. Um, my dream for myself. Which has changed a lot this year, because this has been an, it's the same for everyone. So, um, very challenging. My dream is to be curious, uh, joyful, and live, um, a beautiful life. Uh, I believe in miracles for sure. Uh, I have seen them. Um, I believe that miracles can happen. I believe that change is possible.
And I believe that we don't have to accept the narrative that we've been fed. Uh, what is my dream for women that, um, so I, I really like to say women and non binary people because a lot of people, um, you know, grow up sort of. Anyway, you, you understand why I do that. Um, my dream for everybody, frankly, but, but, but especially for women and non binary people is that folks feel empowered to use their voices for meaningful change, to stand up for themselves, to advocate for themselves and for others, and to not back down when the traditional ways are going to double down.
Because they don't want to crumble, but they're going to fucking crumble and we'll rebuild a world that is much, much better for everybody.
Passionistas: Thanks for listening to The Passionistas Project. Since we're not only business partners, but best friends and real life sisters, we know how unique and truly special our situation is.
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