Creating Art on Her Own Terms Marilyn Cvitanic Journey from Policy Analysis to Painting
Marilyn Cvitanik is a New York based artist who began painting after completing her PhD in policy analysis. Art school wasn't even on her radar, but by the time she reached her early 30s, it became clear that she had to change paths and start painting. Her work is abstract and intuitive, with occasional figurative references primarily in her environment. She has exhibited her work in New York City, Los Angeles, Los Angeles and her ancestral home of Croatia. She has also taught studio art and lectured in art history for approximately 25 years with an emphasis on fashion history.
Listen to the full episode HERE.
LINKS
ON THIS EPISODE
[00:00] Welcome to The Passionistas Project
[00:30] Meet Marilyn Svitanik: From Policy Analysis to Art
[03:33] Early Artistic Influences and Childhood Memories
[05:06] Cultural Roots and Family Ties to Croatia
[07:55] A Shift to Public Health and Policy Analysis
[12:05] Transitioning to Art: The Turning Point
[19:51] The Impact of 9/11 on Artistic Direction
[23:18] Returning to LA: New Inspirations
[30:12] The Beauty and Danger of Art
[31:45] Impact of COVID on Artistic Expression
[35:11] Rediscovering and Revisiting Old Works
[36:41] Journey into Teaching Art
[44:09] Combining Art, Advocacy, and Personal Experience
[51:49] How to Find and Purchase My Art
[56:38] Empowerment and Dreams for Women
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Passionistas: Hi, we're sisters, Amy and Nancy Harrington, the founders of The Passionistas Project. We've created an inclusive sisterhood where passion driven women come to get support, find their purpose, and feel empowered to transform their lives and change the world. On every episode, we discuss the unique ways in which each woman is following her passions, talk about how she defines success, and explore her path to breaking down the barriers that women too often face.
Today, we're talking with Marilyn Svitanik, a New York based artist who began painting after completing her PhD in policy analysis. Art school wasn't even on her radar, but by the time she reached her early 30s, it became clear that she had to change paths and start painting. Her work is abstract and intuitive, with occasional figurative references primarily in her environment.
She has exhibited her work in New York City, Los Angeles, Los Angeles and her ancestral home of Croatia. She has also taught studio art and lectured in art history for approximately 25 years with an emphasis on fashion history. So please welcome Marilyn Svitonic. We're so happy to have you here.
Marilyn: Well, thank you so much for having me. What a great intro.
Passionistas: Thanks. Um, what are you most passionate about?
Marilyn: Oh God, I knew you were going to ask me that and it's kind of a hard one for me because I do like a lot of things. I'm the kind of person who definitely needs, you know, a 40 hour, not a 40 hour work week, I need a 40 hour day, um, to get to everything I want to do.
But. I think the overriding, um, certainly with, with work, um, it's, it's art, it's painting, it's the creative process. I'm, um, I'm very, very process oriented. I love nothing more than, um, blank canvas and struggle or piece of paper and starting and not knowing where I'm going and figuring out the path and, and then thinking it's going to go this way, but then it's going to go another way.
And, and then there's this last phase where you're really, really working hard because you have the vision, the vision has come, has come. And now how do I manifest it? So there, that's, that's really. On my website I say everything is intuitive because, um, that's the way I work. And sometimes I think it's a reaction to spending the first part of my life doing such heavily analytical things.
Um, And there's nothing wrong with that. I, I, uh, I don't, I think it was good for me to, for example, take a serious course in econometrics because whatever is, you know, whatever struggles you face, you do come out stronger and econometrics was a major struggle for me. Um, but after having gone through all that, I felt like this other part of my mind was just.
Dying to activate. And that's the more intuitive part. So…
Passionistas: That's amazing. So, so let's take a step way back. Mm-Hmm. . Um, because you said you didn't get into art until you, until much later in life. So were you artistic at all as a kid? Were the arts part of your life growing up?
Marilyn: Yeah, um, I was one of those kids who always wanted to draw, always, um, had a, at the very least, a coloring book, but, you know, I, you could set me down with paper and pencil and I didn't even need crayons, but if you had those or markers, even better, and I was good.
That, that was it. Um, unlike my brother, I didn't draw on walls. My brother did a lot of, did a lot of muraling in our houses. I, I was on paper and pencil. I was, I was more behaved than he was. But, um, yeah, I remember the first time I picked up a paintbrush. It's one of my earliest memories. And, um, it was, my mom got me a watercolor set and I, I dipped the brush into the orange.
Still one of my, you know, it's a very prominent color in my palette still. And I, I tried to make a mark on this piece of paper and I didn't like the mark and I started getting mad and then my mother showed me how to, you know, really hold the brush and, and then I got the hang of it. And I don't know what I did after that, except I was on to something.
So, so yeah, I was artistic as a child, but I didn't have the parents that, um, wasn't they weren't. Nurturing that is that they wanted me to make a living. They were immigrants. They didn't want their kid to be a starving artist. So, yeah.
Passionistas: So your parents were from Croatia. Did you go there as a kid?
Marilyn: The first time I went, I was a teenager, but I heard a lot about it.
And at home, we had a very bilingual and bicultural household. So I knew a lot about it at the time it was Yugoslavia. I knew a lot about it. And I could understand the language and I could speak a bit, but, um, I, I was kind of indifferent to it all until I got there and I saw the water and the beach and the islands and, um, Because when we first got there, I remember being in Zagreb, which at the time, it's a beautiful city now, but at the time, this was Yugoslavia, it was the 70s, it was the 80s, and it was kind of gray and grimy.
And I admit, I was a suburban LA kid. I wanted to go shopping and there was nothing for me to buy. So I had all this babysitting money burning a hole in my pocket. I ended up buying a rug with it, um, a beautiful rug. Bosnian rug. But, um, but I wanted to buy clothes, you know, and it is no clothes to buy that I liked.
So I was really kind of like, well, what are we doing here? And then we went to the coast and everything changed. And, um, I, you know, went to some barbecues, which are Big in Croatia, grilled fish. Um, and I, I went swimming every day and I was like, okay, I'm sold. I can move here. I'm I'm done. And everything blipped once I got to the coast.
And, um, now I'm, I'm not that, um. I mean, I love the whole country now, of course, now that I'm a little more mature than I was when I first went. But, um, and I always would say Croatia is so much more than just a beach. There's an enormously rich culture, but the 15 year old me, it was the beach that spoke to me. Yeah.
Passionistas: And do you still have family there that you see when you go back?
Marilyn: Yes, I have cousins, um, I have an aunt still, um, and mostly cousins. Um, my dearest, uh, one of my dearest cousins, who wasn't that old, sadly passed away this year, and um, Fedor, so, so he was a big tie for me, Croatia. I'd always go see him, but I have other cousins who I see regularly, and who I love dearly, so I'm, um, and I have friends there, so I'm, I'm always, I'm, I'm just happy to be there.
Passionistas: So let's talk about policy analysis. Why was that, why, why was that the choice? And explain what that even is for those of us who don't understand.
Marilyn: Well, let me, let me just start at the beginning. I wanted to save the world. When I was a teenager, I thought my parents were saying, Oh, you get good grades. You can be a doctor.
That's what every immigrant family tells you. You can be a doctor. So I thought I'm going to be a doctor. Right. And then, um, I got into college and I realized I couldn't do organic chemistry. I could do a lot of subjects, but organic chemistry was just, it was not working. And even my general science grades were not med school caliber.
But then I thought, what do I really want to do? Well, Um, I wanted everyone to have access to healthcare, and the reason this was so important to me was when I was a teenager, this is like really personal going back, but maybe it's interesting to people when I was a teenager, um, I had a skateboarding accident.
Nothing horrible, but I had to go to the emergency room. And I sat there and I saw this, this man get wheeled in. He didn't speak English. And he had some kind of a, an accident with a machine, a gardening accident. Maybe he was bleeding all over the place. He was in a wheelchair and they wouldn't take care of him.
And I'm sitting here, you know, with my mom, my elbows all, my arm is all iced up and you know, everyone's being super nice to me. And they just told this guy that he had to drive from the hospital we were at in the San Gabriel Valley to the county hospital, which was like half an hour away and he's bleeding.
And I guess he wasn't. But I thought, that is wrong. That is so wrong. So that was part of it. It's like, I want to make that never happen to anybody. So I, um, in lieu of med school, because I realized I wasn't going to get in, I got into public health. I got a bachelor's in public health. I dedicated myself to AIDS and HIV, um, because that seemed to be the biggest emergency situation.
And, and it was easy to relate to because. People around me were getting sick, so, um, you know, and they didn't have, again, access to health care, to everything they needed. They were just suffering, and this is a wealthy country, you know. No one should be suffering like that. So, um, I got into all of that and I was really coming from a standpoint of advocacy.
So policy analysis is where you get a lot of data usually, usually hard data, and you run it through regressions and different types of analytic models, quantitative models usually, to see what is the data really telling you. What's really happening here and what just seems like it is happening, but maybe, you know, you have your bias.
Well, you think X, Y, or Z is happening, but the data tells you, you know, X and Y are happening, but Z not so much. So I think that's super important work. I'm a big believer in numbers, science and numbers. Um, I just wasn't that great at it. I mean, I worked really hard to complete my PhD. It was painful. That hurt.
But, um, I wasn't that great at it. In the meantime, I was much more drawn towards advocacy. And I ended up working at the VA hospital, um, in New York and running a pet therapy program for a while and doing research projects on AIDS and HIV. Um, it's work I'm still proud of. Um, I volunteered at AIDS Project LA when I was still in school and, um, it was all work I was proud of.
But I have to admit after dedicating it at that point, it was, you know, pretty much. I was burnt out. You know, a lot of people died. And, um, so I just thought I need to shift. And at the same time, I started taking art classes and I never stopped being interested in art and art history. That was always there.
But, um, I began to take it more seriously and, um, I just thought I'm getting a studio. I'm just going to paint. I'm going to work part time at, Healthcare related stuff, or, you know, have a part time job. So I did both for many years and it was actually anyone who's interested in becoming an artist, strongly advise you to have a good part time day job.
Because that takes the pressure off of having to sell work, having to think about the commercial aspect of what you're doing, because especially when you're starting, you just need to develop, you just need to make a lot of mistakes and not worry about it, you know, not feel like, if I don't sell X amount of art this week, uh, I can't pay my bills.
I mean, sometimes people have no choice, but if you do have a choice, get a 20 hour a week job that covers everything and really explore your creativity.
Passionistas: So what inspired you to take that first art class as an adult?
Marilyn: It was really clear to me that, um, some, I heard from a number of people who knew me pretty well in my twenties and they saw how hard I was working to get the degree.
And they were like, a couple of people said, you know, you're supposed to be an artist. And I'm like, really, you think? My parents never said that, God forbid, but um, in my family, no one in my family ever said that. That scared the hell out of them. Um, but once I figured I would have the degree and I could get the part time job and I could make a living, because I didn't have high financial aspirations at all.
I just wanted to pay rent and have food on the table. Um, I, in lieu of getting the full time job, I got the part time job and, and deliberately went to the Arts Students League at this point I was in New York and started taking figure drawing classes and I loved it. And I loved seeing what other artists were doing.
I would just, all my free time was either going to the museum, reading about art, or making some pretty bad figure drawings, but eventually I, I got the hang of it. I, I got so that I could really do it. And, um, and at that point I started getting, uh, I hate to say this, but I was getting a little bit bored with the figurative world.
I felt this urge to move beyond it. And I originally thought I was going to be a photo realist painter. Um, but I just, it wasn't meant to be for me. I ended up, you know, veering off into other, uh, creative directions. So that was, that was the beginning of it all. Art Students League, again, go there. If you live in New York, go there.
You're, you're walking into a building that is so loaded with history. So many famous artists went there at one point or another. Um, and one of my favorites always is Georgia O'Keeffe, and she I She went there. Even Jackson Pollock went there. Um, I don't know, you could Google it. There's a list of people.
So when you walk in, it's like, ooh, I'm, I'm surrounded by history.
Passionistas: Hallowed ground.
Marilyn: It is hallowed ground. Yeah.
Passionistas: Yeah. So your motto is everything is intuitive. So how does that inform your artwork?
Marilyn: Well, I, I used to come up with an idea. I mean, I still do, and it's often something in my environment, like now I'm in LA and I went to the Huntington Library and Gardens the other day, and I saw these chrysanthemums. Um, tightly, these chrysanthemum buds that were all tightly bunched together and I just loved it. The texture, the color. So I photographed it and that's, that's an idea, that's an inspiration. So at some point, probably this week, I'm going to sit down with some canvas.
With that in mind, I may look at the photograph and I'll just start working. I'm not going to be painting a bunch of chrysanthemums. That's not going to happen. I mean, not that it's not a great idea, but, you know, that's, it's going to veer off. It's going to take on a life of its own. It's almost as though, and I'm not the only painter to say this, but the materials speak to you.
Your medium speaks to you. So, you see what it's doing, and then you just say, okay, it's doing it. It wants to do this or look at, and this is with watercolor, my God. Watercolor is a very communicative, um, medium. And, and, uh, you can see I, on my website, I have a number of watercolors and it kind of tells you what to do next.
It may be that certain shapes that take place when you're just doing your initial wash, you're starting and maybe putting some dabs of color around. It may be that. Your eye intuitively knows what to focus on and how to build a composition around what looks very random. So that's why I say it's an intuitive process here, but, um, as someone pointed out to me a while ago, they saw my motto and they said, well, if you ever look at children's art, Boy, compositionally, it is usually pretty amazing.
And when you follow children's progression, there's a point at which they start getting self conscious and their art becomes stunted. It's not as wild, as crazy, as brilliant, and it's simply not as good as maybe it was when they were in kindergarten, say. And, um, so that's that intuition that gets. so much for joining me today, and I'll see you in the next one.
But cheap crappy paper, you can destroy it. It's not precious. That's the idea. And they'd be like, I don't know what to do. And you have to get them to the point where they're doing something, anything. And they begin after a while, and this may take weeks, they begin to find a style, a voice, if you will, a verbal voice, a style of their own.
And, and if you can kind of guide them through that. They may actually feel that, hey, I have something to say visually, I can do this, but you're kind of going through layers and layers of those voices that say, I don't know how to do this, I can't draw, I don't know where to begin, or I can't write, same thing is true with writing.
Imagine it's true with music. You've got to start somewhere. Overcome your fear. So, did that answer your question?
Passionistas: Oh, definitely. Definitely. That was a great answer. Um, it seems like a lot of your work is informed by Your environment and what's happening in the world too. So tell us what happened, um, where you were during 9/11 and how that influenced the work you started to do at that period.
Marilyn: Oh, it's so interesting. That is around the time I really switched to working abstractly. Because I truly, I hadn't been painting for all that, that long. And, um, I was doing these kind of surrealistic animal paintings, um, and they were fine. But, um, 9/11, I was in, um, living in New York, obviously, and I happened to be at, um, my, at the time, I guess, Boyfriend, husband's house, more than husband's house.
He was living in New Jersey at the time, now we're, we live together, but at the time he was in New Jersey and I was at his house and I was going to come into the city because I had to teach that day and I, um, we had the radio on and the, you know, oh, a plane crashed into the World Trade Center. And then, little by little, the whole story became evident, we went to a place where we could see Manhattan and it was just like, you know, smoke everywhere, it was a nightmare.
Um, and like everyone who was around at that time, it changed your concept of reality. Something happened that 24 hours ago you didn't think was possible. It just didn't happen. Didn't cross my mind that anything like this happened. And so we're all, if you were an adult at this point and you had a set view of reality, we all changed that day.
Particularly if you lived in New York City, that day changed you, your concept of what's real, what's possible and what isn't. So, um, took a day and a half for me to get home. Um, I was on one of the first PATH trains going from New Jersey to, um, New York. Manhattan. And, um, a number of my friends said, why, why are you in such a rush to go home?
And I was like, um, because I have three cats and they're in my apartment. And I don't know. I mean, my apartment wasn't damaged. It wasn't dusty. Nothing bad happened, except my cats were definitely, um, freaked out. And, um, so, so I was, I really wanted to get home. And then when I I just was like, I, I don't know how, how can I paint?
What can I do? How, and so I did this little exercise, went to the art supply store, I bought some random supplies, including cheap paper, and I just started making marks. And I found myself making a lot of rectangles, and these verticals, and I thought, wow, this is from what? is in my head. Um, and that began that process of abstraction using watercolor, actually, because I started seeing these verticals in, appear in the watercolor, and then I started making these, overlaying it with little squares, and those are my earliest abstract pieces.
And, but yeah, 9/11, I think, jump started me to doing abstract work.
Passionistas: And then in 2016 you came back to LA. Yeah. How did that happen and how did that influence your work?
Marilyn: Well, that was, um, my dad was living alone at that point. My mom had passed away six years before. And he was living in the house that I'm in now that, um, my parents bought.
I don't know, it's over 50 years ago. And um, this was a family home and he got to a point where he couldn't live alone anymore. He wasn't terribly sick, but he just couldn't be by himself. So he was either going to have to go into assisted living or He didn't want a stranger coming in to take care of him.
He wanted to stay in his house. And he was not suited for assisted living. Let me tell you, this guy is not a participant. Like he, he was not going to sit at a table with a bunch of other people, even though they're all in the same spot in their lives. No, he wasn't going to talk to random people. That is not my dad.
My dad wanted to be home in his house with the handful of people he considered his associates, his friends. So I always promised him, I was like, you're not going to have to go to a nursing home. You're not going to have to go assisted living. I can't. And that's Croatian, by the way. You do not put your elders into a facility unless you have absolutely no choice.
So I my job and I came out here and eventually John joined me and um, we took care of my dad for a couple of years, but because he was basically, he liked being independent, um, I did have time to have a little studio in the house and paint, but I was no longer painting these kind of rectangular city scenes because I was living in the suburbs.
Pasadena area, you know, trees, mountains, um, and I started seeing not only a lot of organic forms around me, you know, in the yard and grass, all of that's inspiring, but, um, the mountains, I went on a couple of little hikes, hikes, and I kept seeing how the, the rocks, the sediment of rocks over the, the centuries, really, would create these amazing horizontal lines.
And I thought, wow, I've got that's, I got to paint that. I began with these paintings that are now called Geology of Home, the Geology of Home series, and they look somewhat, some people say, oh, they look really microbial, or they look really, and there's that, you know, I guess that goes back to my science studies way back when, because if it's intuitive, it's all in my brain.
None of it gets erased, right? So, um, so I guess I'm unintentionally creating these microbial, um, scenes, but they were inspired by sedimentary rock and what I saw, um, the organic plant forms around me. So the geology of home was like, okay, this is where I grew up. I lived in LA. I went hiking a lot with my family and, um, And, and so that was kind of came to the forefront of my work.
So sometimes people say, God, your work is so diverse. Well, it's because I don't, none of us usually stay in one place. Life is diverse. So when you're responding to your environment on a regular basis, and you're attuned to your environment, then, um, at least for me, my work is, is going to shift. Um, so we.
Passionistas: So how, how is your work impacted when you go, because you go back and forth and to Croatia a lot.
So yeah, your mind is all over the place. So do you see like those two very distinct things melding? Is it a completely different style?
Marilyn: I think they meld. I think like sometimes you'll look at a piece, and you'll see, um, um, organic, floral or plant elements, even though it looks like it's kind of a cityscape.
Um, there's some pieces that I, I have a short series, um, that I'll probably get back into in New York when I'm in my studio, based on water and ponds. And that's definitely from Croatia. But then you see these block like shapes, That are kind of, they're not organic. They're, you know, nature abhors 90 degree angles.
These are, these are shapes that are man made. They're from the city. So yes, there is a melding. And um, one of the pieces that I sent you guys is from a series that's really different for me. Um, and uh, it's, it's the Fallout Flower series. And um, I do love floral. And semi symmetrical forms. I I've always loved that.
And, um, I find them very relaxing, but I do sometimes I listen to music while I paint, sometimes it's quiet, sometimes, cause this is the, this is the analyst. This is the policy person in me. I listen to kind of these more. Um, detailed podcasts. I listened to this one, um, I can give this guy a plug, um, Background Briefing.
Um, it's great if you're into the minutiae of the news. It's a great podcast and it's out of Santa Monica. And, uh, so I listen to that sometimes when I paint. And there was an episode where they were talking about. The Ukraine War and the possibility of using nukes, like, maybe Putin's going to use nukes, which is totally, like, insane and, and, uh, upsetting.
And then I, I just Googled Chernobyl, just see, or maybe the Russians had taken over Chernobyl. That might've been it. I Googled Chernobyl. I saw these weird plants, you know, these flowers. Now, I don't know if all these weird flowers are shaped by nuclear. mutation, or if they're just natural mutations that happen in nature, because when I looked more deeply, I found some of these mutations are, or daisies in particular, are natural, but I was like, Oh my God, these are a trip.
These are so inspiring to me. So I, I created, um, I'm working on a series of, of basically plant paintings that are radioactive. The colors are abnormal, the colors are too bright, and they're very, I think, beautiful, um, um, um, But they're unnerving too, because even if you look at something as horrifying as a nuclear blast, for example, a mushroom cloud, and I started reading a lot about this and watching stuff on YouTube, nuclear stuff, um, the cloud is gorgeous.
But it's deadly, it's horrifying. And I thought, well, I'm, I tap into a little bit of that, you know, like these are weird plants, these are not plants you want in your living room. Um, but they're beautiful at the same time. So you can have the painting in your living room because that real plant. You know, that you want to stay away from.
The Geiger counter is gonna go crazy, but, um, and you're gonna get mutated, but, um, but the painting, yeah, I, I really, um, when I get back to New York, I'm gonna work on those, but, um, the reason I say when I get back to New York is those have to be oils. When I work figuratively, which I still do sometimes, I do, I do paintings of cats and dogs.
I, one of my early, uh, artistic endeavors was animal portraiture. And, um, I still do that in oil. When someone wants a portrait, it's, I gotta do it in oil. So these particular, um, fallout flowers have to be oil paintings. Um, and I don't do that here in the house, cause, I don't know. I work in acrylic, stuff that doesn't smell. So…
Passionistas: So then how did COVID influence your art? Was there another shift there again?
Marilyn: Oh, um, yeah. Well, COVID shifted everyone's life. Um, 2020. March. Um, I had planned with John, we were both planned to move back to New York. My dad had passed away. Enough had been done with the house and everything. We were ready to go back to New York.
And I went back for my friend Estelle's birthday party. I went, her birthday was February, it was leap year, 29th. So I went to her birthday party and then I figured, oh, it was too hard to, Drag all this stuff with me on this trip for the birthday party. I had so many frequent flyer miles. I thought I'm just gonna come to the party for a couple days and then go home to la And then around the 18th of March, John and I were gonna pack a bunch of stuff and ship it all out.
And we had plane tickets to fly to New York on the 18th of March, 2020. By then, the world had changed. It, everything was shut down and, um, we ended up being here in LA for, I don't know, two years, I think, before we could go to New York. So I started doing, um, more of these, I had these series of pandemic sketches because I was just here and I was doing these little watercolors that came about very spontaneously, um, that looked like microbes.
They're very, again, they're very pretty. I'm very proud of them because they're, they're very beautiful and beauty is, is something that I, I look for in art. But again, these aren't COVID microbes necessarily at all. They're just imaginary microbes. But what's a microbe? It could be something that helps you or it could be something that kills you.
So these are just very beautiful and, um, not necessarily benign because look at the pictures of the COVID virus. It can be stunningly beautiful. So these are pictures of imaginary microbes that, I don't know, some kind of amoeba that could, I don't know, be the key to the fountain of everlasting life or it can, you know, kill you.
I don't know. So this is, I did a lot of those. And then I did more of these Geology of Home pieces, and towards the end I did a series where I just was kind of feeling burnt out on everything, and I, I had to change. So I started making a series of small collages, and um, they were inspired by a book I got at a flea market called Knowledge Through Color, and I kept thinking, there's a whole series of of knowledge through color books that were for kids back in the ‘50s, maybe ‘60s.
They're beautifully illustrated, so I kind of collected them and um, I thought well that's a great idea for abstract work, knowledge through color, but um, I started making collages and that was towards the end of that time. But, um, interestingly, now that I'm back in this house, I am working on a pandemic sketch.
I found one that was half done and I was like, oh, I got to finish this and see how it turns out.
Passionistas: Do you stumble upon unfinished pieces? In 2018, I came across a piece that's finished. Is that something that happens
Marilyn: often that you have to do? Yes, I I think I finish most things. I usually reach a point of resolution, but what happens is sometimes I look at a piece, a year, two years.
Like right now, I came across a piece I did. I think in 2018. Maybe 2019.
Passionistas: Could it have been?
Marilyn: Yeah, I think, and I looked at it and said, God, that's not very good. That's just, it just needs help. This piece needs help, but there's enough there to work with, so I'm not gonna white it out and, you know, repaint over the canvas.
I very rarely, if ever do that. Um, I'm just working what's with, what's working with what's there. And now I, I should send it to you. I think it's good. I, I think I like it. But I had to kind of, um, it was based on a city theme. And so I, even though I'm in LA, I had to kind of pull up that city visual to complete this, this piece.
But, um, yeah, I just did it, finished it yesterday. So, I do that, um, when I find things that, and
I, it happens in LA, in New York all the time. I find things that I did five years ago. I'm just going, this is a good start, but I, I can't show this to anyone now. This is not me now. So I, I think I improved the work.
I hope I do. It's my intention.
Passionistas: So in addition to being an artist, you're also a teacher. So talk a little bit about that experience, what you teach and what you like about doing that.
Marilyn: I think I spent so much time as a student that I I love being on the other end of the classroom. Um, I began teaching really randomly.
Um, there was a college that a friend of mine was a professor at. He was an art professor. And they had scheduled a summer school figure drawing class. And the person who was supposed to teach that class, um, just didn't show up. I guess she didn't know she was supposed to teach, it just didn't show up. So, my friend calls me in a panic and he says, Do you want to teach figure drawing, life drawing, uh, basic drawing 101, whatever you want to call it.
And I was like, I'll do drawing 101. Yeah, I guess. I mean, I don't know. I said, I don't know if I know how to teach it. But, but, you know, I'm always up for an adventure. And how bad could it be? Right? I needed a job. At that moment, I needed a job. And so, so I went to teach and I found that Oh, I really like doing this.
And I liked working with the students. And, um, it was a small class. It was summer school. It was very casual. We had a great time. I had six students. It was fun. And then the college said, well, do you want to teach this other class that's half studio, half art history? I'm like, wow, well, I know a lot of art history.
But I probably, and we're still using slides at that point, right? So this is like 2000, we did not use. You know, PowerPoint. So I was like, okay, let me see what slides you got. I'll cobble something together. But the idea was I'd give a half hour talk or hour talk on, um, a period in art history, show a bunch of slides, and then I'd give the students a studio assignment that was based on those slides and that period in art history.
So it was very creative, but it's also academic. They had midterms and, and stuff like that on the art history. And, um, I found I love teaching both. I really loved teaching both. Again, some professor didn't show up or had to, got sick or I don't know, got another job, probably an adjunct, got another job. And um, there's a sister school that needed at the last minute, someone to teach our full semester of survey Western art.
And they got my name and they're like, Oh, she knows how to do this. And I'm like, Oh, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's that I'm always up to try. Cause I love this subject. It's, it's not hard for me to spend time. An afternoon or a day reading about a period in art history and putting together a lecture.
That, that's kind of a good time for me. So, um, I put together a course and it went well and thank you, dear God, this school had the equipment for PowerPoints. So, I was able to really design a course around the imagery that I wanted and the students could have the reading materials that I wanted them to use.
And it was really, really great. I went on doing that. And finally, I had this idea, dream come true idea of, well, why don't we have the, the, the structure of this department was very loose. Why don't we have a history of fashion class? How fun would that be? And I could talk about what people wore and how that ties into art history, how we can look at, um, Ancient, from ancient to, you know, renaissance to, um, enlightenment to, you know, 19th, 20th century, uh, works of art and how clothing relates to all of that.
How does it connect to portraiture? Why that vest? Why those, why that stomacher? Why that hairstyle? You know, there's so much information, um, to convey just in a, in a portrait. of a, you know, 17th century minor aristocrat. So interesting. And then as you get into the 20th century and into the 19th and into the 20th century, it becomes more of a women's studies class because the role of women becomes so much more prominent.
And um, and that's the bulk of the classes, you know. I reserve a lot of time for 19th and 20th century and you can talk about the, a little bit about the labor movement and once you get to feminism and how clothing changed and um, there's more female designers out there and, and women's role in society has completely evolved and so does, so did our clothing.
So Now, I'm not teaching anywhere, being an adjunct, um, my position is always fluid, but I'm dying to do that as an adult ed class, because so many people said, oh, I wish I could sit in on your class, and I'm like, well, you, I mean, you don't really want to sit through all this academic stuff, maybe, maybe you do, but, um, I want to tailor it to adults who are just curious.
So that's something I'd like to, to do. you again in the future, hopefully near future.
Passionistas: Yeah, I was thinking as you were talking, I'm like, I want to take that class.
Sounds like a good sisterhood workshop.
Marilyn: Yeah, it would be. I mean, I think, um, yeah, it's, it's someplace, something that is not, um, You know, when we compare it to straight up art history, there's so much documentation.
There's so many really well researched ideas and theories. And even when scholars don't agree, you've got lots of evidence on both sides, fashion history, clothing history. It's just, the research is much thinner. And so sometimes when I'll, I'll talk about, Um, and then I also come up with a concept that I think is really validated by the, the literature.
Um, I'll find, I'll go online, God forbid, and then you find someone who says, no, that's not true. It's really like this. And, and so as, as a scholar, I do have to go through to the, the academic literature that's been peer reviewed. And I'm, I'm kind of a purist that way, but that does not make it less interesting.
Um, it almost makes it more interesting because. You're, you're really dealing with, um, again, data, not numbers, but real, real hardcore archaeological information.
Passionistas: I love that you've found a way to combine, it sounds like you've combined all three. Of the interests that you've talked about, the data and the information and research, the art and the creativity, but also that advocacy that inspired you to go down that original path.
So are you consciously aware of that element of it? Is it something you're trying to to work into your, your teaching and your art?
Marilyn: It's a, it's a tough area because, um, part of what really motivated me away from policy work and even more into art was that I felt I had more to contribute. And the irony here is that, yeah, I had all this training in data analysis, but guess what?
People don't care about data. My goal was socialized, and I'm not afraid to say it, socialized medicine. Medicine for everyone. When I was in my 20s getting that PhD, I was like, everyone's got to have healthcare. And, and it's got to be a, uh, a right. Um, and I realized as I got more mature that, um, no one in the policymaking world was going to do that.
And I thought I could spend the next 40 years, um, banging my head against the wall, coming up with all the data that I, it was already there by the 80s, that our system was not working. It was so evident our system wasn't working, and yet, when Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton tried to create, um, kind of a public option, and what eventually was very much like Obamacare, but they included the public option, which was central, that couldn't pass through Congress.
And I was just like, I don't know man, I do a painting of someone's cat and they're really happy. Or I, I do a really beautiful work of art and, and it, people want to look at it every day. You know, I was selling a little bit and I was like, I'm communicating something here. So maybe I can do both. You know, advocacy work on some level and um, and work to make the world better through art, which I don't take lightly because I believe a really good work of art, and it could be a play, it could be a poem, it could be a song, it could be a symphony, it could be a painting, it could be any kind of creative work.
Work that speaks to a person shifts their mindset and once that mindset is shifted, they are going to be open to more possibilities. And if those are, you know, the right possibilities, hey, you've made a difference in that person's life. You've shifted their mind a little bit. You know, I know great art has done that for me.
And um, even as a, as a teenager, you know, when I listened to music, I was like, Wow, I was so moved by, in that, at that point it was, and I still am a huge Bob Dylan fan, but the songs of Bob Dylan, that, that opened me up to poetry, that opened me up to all kinds of, then, uh, political literature and, and things like that.
So, um, I take that responsibility as being an, of being an artist super, super seriously, um, and it's a type of, it can be a type of advocacy, even if it's not overtly political work. Originally, I thought I was going to do overtly political work. Sue Ko, one of the, my great heroes, heroes, um, I love her work, her work for animal rights, human rights, and, uh, particularly, uh, You know, I'm a big animal lover too, so, um, and I thought, God, I want to do work like that, but it wasn't happening for me.
I'm not, I'm not Sukho. I'm something else. So that was kind of a, a disappointment that I, I can't be Sukho, but I, I realized Sukho is Sukho and, and I'm doing something else. That needs to be done. But that was kind of, as an artist, that was like, wow, okay, I, this other voice is calling me and I, I gotta follow it.
So it's not that I don't, like, like I had some, um, animal, I think I still have some cat paintings up at, um, um, They have a fringe hair salon in Brooklyn, um, on, uh, not in Brooklyn, actually, this is their, their salon in, on the Lower East Side on Broom Street in New York, and their little cat paintings. And, um, there's also work by another artist and please forgive me, I'm forgetting his name, but, um, part of the money that comes from the sale of those works goes to charity.
And. Um, so there's ways you can still, even on that level, create art that raises money for a good cause. And one that hits home for me is having Medicare pay for home care for elders, because I had to have extra help to take care of my dad at times. And thank God my dad had, um, Some money so we could pay for that, but it's damn expensive.
So many people, especially women, daughters, um, sisters, cousins, friends, women are taking care. In some cases, wives taking care of taking care of their family who, um, need home care. And these are people who have given up their jobs. I mean, I was lucky I was able to go back to my job teaching after I'd taken this hiatus to do home care.
You know, I have to say taking care of my father was a challenge at times, but it was also one of the greatest blessings of my life. I wouldn't have changed that decision for anything, even though it was challenging. You know, um, you know, people with disabilities can get cranky and, and they're in pain and we have to be patient and, um, forgiving and also not take that anger personally.
But, um, You know, it's hard. And the fact that people could get a caregiver that Medicare would pay for, you know, part of the time, so they're not, you know, I, I had no savings left. Um, but my dad had, you know, I have to say he'd saved up money for his old age. I mean, we were fine financially, but a lot of people aren't.
Um, so these are big things that, um, you can hear it, you know, I'm an artist, but this stuff is, is what motivated me as a child to get up out of the morning too. I mean, get up in the morning. It's not, it's not, it's art, yes, but art has to also tie into these bigger ideas of how do we make the world a better place and, um, you know.
And education is key to that, you know, so um, teaching history I think is key to that. I always felt like the material that I introduce students to and people think, oh art history, that's a light subject for, for, I don't know, the daughters of wealthy people or something. I, it's absolutely not. It's, it's a, it's a very important subject that shows us where we've come from culturally and how we've changed and how we can look forward into the future and make this a better place.
But, you know, um, it's all, it's all, uh, it's all an uphill climb.
Passionistas: Absolutely. So for people that need to experience the beauty of your art, um, how can people find you and, and what, um, What do you have that people can buy?
Marilyn: Oh gosh, I have a lot, um, because I am prolific. Um, I have a lot of small pieces, um, so they can go to my website and that's MarilynPaints.com. M-A-R-I-L-Y-N paints, P-A-I-N-T-S.com. You can, um, Buy a print. If you see a piece you like, you can contact me. I believe I have my, um, I'm going to do something daring and give my email address, um, mjc at bway. net. That's, um, one email address, the other is Marilyn at MarilynPaints.com. And if you see something you like, you can email me, um, just let me know that you are not interested in buying a digital version of my work because I don't do that.
So let me know that you're, and that you came through this podcast and, cause I get a lot of weird inquiries and, and. I have to sift through. But, um, the other thing is, um, I do have a lot of work in LA, so if you're based in LA, you can set up a time to do a kind of a studio visit. In New York, uh, the same thing is true.
November 11th, I'm going to New York and, um, I'll be there for a few months at least. And, um, If you sign up on my website to get my newsletter or just put your email in there, you'll find out when I'm going to have an open studio. I think it will be, let's see, the first weekend after Thanksgiving, probably like December 7th, something like that, but I, it's not locked in yet, but then you can come or you can just Make an appointment and come and look at work.
But, um, I'm easy also. God, if you, if you're driving and you can't get this information, I'm the only Maryland's botanic in the world. You can just Google me. I'm like so damn easy to find. I, I can't, yeah, I can't hide. It's like, so you'll find me and just Google will, Google will do the work for you.
Passionistas: And you were telling us you also have like mugs and bags and things like that that people can buy that sound like they'd be amazing gifts.
Marilyn: People buy that, um, fun stuff on my website. So it's a little weird. It's like, if you, this website is not the most user friendly, but you can figure it out. People can figure it out. It's not that hard. See an image you like.
If you click on it, um, there's probably a spot where you can click on media and because we're zooming right now I'm not going to double check that but there's also I believe in the menu up at the top products and you can see some of the products that I've recommended images that worked well as tote bags, um, pillows, mugs, um, I don't those are the big three I guess, um, so and if you can't find a product you just email me and I'll send you the link.
It's not a problem at all. I'm, you know, I'm available. It's so flattering. I'm still at this point in my life. I'm so happy people like my art. Does that sound silly? I'm just like, I just, you know, it's really nice. It's a very nice validating thing when someone says, Oh, I really like your work. And I like going to your website.
If they don't buy anything, it's still really validating. And, um, I never take any of that for granted. So I'm always happy to get an email from someone. That where they're asking questions or just saying, I like what you do.
Passionistas: Well, you pour your heart and soul into it, and that's so clear. And it's hard on a podcast to convey the beauty of your work.
And we were fortunate enough to go to your workshop and your studio in New York and It was just a treasure trove of, you know, flipping through things. And, uh, so it's, we cannot recommend it enough. Um, we'll put some of the images in the Sisterhood, uh, so people can see them there. Um, we're almost out of time, but we have one last question, is what is your dream for yourself? And what is your dream for women?
Marilyn: Oh, wow. Okay. My number one dream for women. And I think that's a really obvious choice and access to health care. And the other thing is, feel your power. You know, I had an old fashioned mother, but she wasn't that old fashioned. She basically told me, she said, you got it, men want it, be aware of that.
You do not have to kowtow to anybody. You are in control. And, you know, the #MeToo movement was very important to me because like so many people of my generation, I dealt with a lot of crap in the workplace. And, um, I let a lot of it roll off of me. But there was a point where no meant no. And, and never be afraid of the word no.
That is your power. And yes is too. But women are used to, we're kind of more attuned to saying yes. But no, super important. And it's not just a me too, you know, thing. It's like somebody tells you to do work that you're not being paid for. You don't have to be nice. You go, yeah, I'll do that. But are you paying me overtime?
You know, and you might piss off your boss. I've pissed off bosses, but I didn't get fired. You know, they just realized they weren't going to take advantage of me. And the cool bosses, the bosses that were nice, were like, Oh, I understand. Let me see what I can do to, to compensate you. Because again, the, the years of part time jobs.
So, um, um, interestingly, academia was the kindest to me, has been the kindest. So I'm not complaining about academia, but other types of jobs I've had. And, um, that's the dream, just, yeah, feel your worth. Um, and, uh, for myself, it is just that I can paint and create as long as possible, get that work out into the world.
I don't need to get, I mean, I just need to live. You know, I don't need to have a, yeah, retrospective at MoMA would be great, but it's not, I like to see my work in people's homes. And workplaces. That's why when Fringe Salon offered me the opportunity to show my work there, I jumped on it. I was like, hey, people go in there, they get their hair done, they're looking at the walls.
They're not there to buy art necessarily, but they're going to see my work. And so that's, that for me, and also that I, I get up every morning and I, I can make the right decisions. Do the right thing by people in my life, you know, love my beloved people, John, um, my family, um, the friends, people I love. Do right by them. Always. And by strangers. Just do, you know, do right by the world.
Passionistas: Thanks for listening to The Passionistas Project. Be sure to visit ThePassionistasProject.com to sign up for your free membership to join our worldwide sisterhood where passion driven women come to get support, find their purpose, and feel empowered to transform their lives and change the world.
We'll be back next week with another Passionista who's defining success on her own terms and breaking down the barriers for herself and women everywhere.
Until then, stay passionate!
Comments